Service Based Business Society Podcast

Beyond Basic Branding Brilliance

Tiffany-Ann: We are back in the studio. And today we are legitimately in the studio. If you're not checking this out on video, we have landed in the most amazing orange podcast studio. It's so perfect. But today, uh, why, why are we in the beautiful orange podcast studio? Because today I am interviewing Stef. Stef Fournier is a personal branding coach and photographer who helps passionate entrepreneurs uplevel their personal brand and attract their soulmate clients.
She also happens to be my brand photographer. We do quarterly photo shoots, have since the very beginning of my business. We're going to talk all about that and how things have progressed, the journey, the evolution, all of that. So from a career in web design and graphic design, Stef started, you know, she was 14 years old, then went to go on to do a university education in media and communications.
She established a super successful photography business and has later pivoted that into brand coaching along with her photography business. Stef is also trained as a master NLP coach and hypnotherapist. Everything to tackle mindset, image, and implementation of your personal brand. She is truly talented on both the branding and photography side.
I feel so fortunate to have had her a part of my own entrepreneurship journey. We've talked about recording a podcast episode for at least a year. And now today we are in the studio and we are recording and I cannot wait to share everything we dive into with you. So Stef lives near Vancouver, Canada, uh, which is of course near me.
And she has a husband and her amazing dash hound wiener dog who she is obsessed with. Uh, she spends lots of time on Vancouver Island, which is like her second home, but ultimately she loves helping people build businesses on their terms, surrounded by people that help them thrive. She has been a key person in my own business journey, and I am so excited to have her here in the studio.
So welcome to the show, Stef.
Okay, we're here, we've talked about recording this episode for ever?
Stef: A year, maybe?
Tiffany-Ann: At least.
Stef: At least.
Tiffany-Ann: At least. But we're here, we're finally doing it, we're in studio, which is super fun. And I really want to talk about personal branding because my personal branding journey with you specifically has really changed my life. I mean, not to just put it, you know, mildly. But, so let's, let's chat a little bit about You know, what is your relation to personal branding and then a little bit about these other pieces because I think that that's what makes you so unique is that there's these other pieces that come along with it that really even just enhance the whole branding experience.
Stef: Yeah, sounds good. By the way, totally humble me, why don't you?
Tiffany-Ann: Well, you know, it has, here's the thing though, if I look at the difference in the journey and you know, we'll talk a little bit in a moment about kind of that first day to even now and the difference. Um, because it has been, I mean, it's different, everything is different.
So first let's talk about like how and what does it even mean and then we'll talk about all of the, you know, life changing part.
Stef: Okay. I like that. Yeah.
Tiffany-Ann: So what, when we're talking personal branding, you know, give us a little, you know, the elevator pitch about what that means to you.
Stef: Yeah, especially because, like, personal branding in general I think is kind of a little bit more of a newer term in the last decade. Uh, when people think of branding, they think, you know, McDonald's, Arches, that's a brand, you know, yellow and orange there, or you think Nike, swoosh. Or even just a corporate brand in general, brand colors, brand values, all those things, right? And so a lot of times when people think of branding and they even come to me with that kind of corporate branding, um, I'm like, no, it's a little bit different.
So personal branding is really exactly what it sounds like. So you're taking all those concepts, but making it a personal thing. And so my philosophy is people buy from people. So be a person. So it's really about trying to create this brand that also says who you are so that you can connect with what I like to call your soulmate clients, um, which we can talk to as a little bit different than ideal clients. Same idea.
And so I think that personal branding is really like saying, "Okay, this is who I am. This is how I can help you. This is my zone of genius." Um, or even if you don't want to say help, I like to say journey with because we don't necessarily always want to say the help part of it. Um, and this is how I want to connect with you so that we can solve a problem together.
And so in order to do that, rather than just Um, throw up your whole life on Instagram. Uh, it needs to be a little bit more curated and it needs to be more with intention. So I like personal brands because it's saying, okay, my brand colors are intended to reach this kind of audience. My message is intended to reach this kind of audience.
And so, so on and so forth, because, you know, if you think about just a corporation brand, they do kind of the same thing, but from a personal brand point of view, it's saying, "Hey, I'm the one who's going to help you. Or work with you, or stand up in front of you and talk about stuff," right? As opposed to just a corporation.
Tiffany-Ann: Yeah, I think there's this, a lot of times when people think personal brand, they think they have to put it all out there. And so then people think, I don't want to do that. And then they shy away from the personal brand direction at all. They think, I don't want to share, you know, all of the behind the scenes of my life. So I don't want a personal brand. So what would you, what would you say to someone who's kind of of that mindset?
Stef: Yeah, and I think that's the biggest, biggest mindset block with it. And it's actually, I kind of giggle a little bit about that because it's really the opposite. It's the chance to. Uh, for lack of a better term, curate what's best for the client that you're trying to reach, and really decide what makes sense to share.
And it becomes this like, online personality, like, I don't want to say it's like, you know, a fake, because it's not at all, it's still a version of you. And just like how you would go to a party, and you'd probably put a different like, side of you out there. It's the same with a personal brand where you don't need to share absolutely everything to somebody you just met.
So it's the same in a, in a corporate or business environment where, you know, the fact that maybe you're a mom, it's going to be useful to some clients, and then maybe that you like dogs or, you know, um, you're a very outdoorsy nature person. But if you were all three, all, all those things might not be applicable to your client.
So we're actually looking at, okay, don't throw everything out there. Let's share the pieces of you that A, you're comfortable with, or maybe a little nudge to be a little bit more comfortable with. And then. Putting it out there to say this is, this is something, somebody that I can connect with, right, other than I'm going to put everything out there.
And you'd be, if you look at very, very strong personal brands out there, you can see that they don't put everything out there, not even somebody like, you know, Elon Musk is going to put everything out there about himself. It just doesn't happen.
Tiffany-Ann: Well, I think when you open too much, it almost becomes a little bit chaotic in that no one really knows what is.
The, the true piece, it just becomes just so much, the volume of stuff, if you will. So what are these other pieces? So tell me a little bit more about these, you know, you've got some other pieces as part of your business that tie into the personal brand and really helping people find what are those colors?
What is that messaging? And, and so what is that process? How does it work? What is, what is the different pieces?
Stef: Yeah. So probably a little background would be useful. Um, I come from a background of graphic design, web design. Um, my education from university is in marketing. So I definitely got that like core let's work on a brand.
I've created many brands over my lifetime from I've worked on, you know, corporate brands, I've worked on government level brands and I've worked on like the mom and pop shop down the street. Right. So that's the very basic level. And then I became a photographer. And a journey through life with that for about a decade and still do that as a big part of my business and I did weddings.
I did everything. And then I realized I really love doing headshots and branding images. So that came into a piece. But then what makes me a little bit different is I've done training and energy work. I've done training. Um, I'm a. Certified Master NLP Coach, which if you don't know what NLP is, it's Neuro Linguistic Programming.
Just basically like how the people think. It's a lot of questioning process. If you think of Tony Robbins, he uses a lot of NLP you don't really know about.
Tiffany-Ann: Interesting.
Stef: Yeah, and actually a lot of, um, a lot of marketing uses NLP techniques and, um, yeah. It's just, it's really the, the fundamental side of it is just how are people thinking?
Um, different ways they think and process information, um, like just different habits, all those kind of things. So I'm certified in that, and then with that I'm actually certified as a hypnotherapist. So the combination of the two work really nicely that, um, we can do things like, Everyone talks about mindset, but in this case it's the deeper mindset.
So we can go as far as if you have a strong belief that you can't make money, you know, you can affirm that all day long, "I can make money, I can make money," but if you don't actually go through, say, the process of when you learned that mindset, and what we might call a limiting belief, then you're never going to move forward with it.
So having that ability to, uh, Uh, have the hypnotherapy background and the NLP and stuff. We could really dive deep into a lot of those mindsets and trigger points. And even know like I have the capability of doing a lot more personal stuff. I love working from it, from a business, but being a personal brand, of course, uh, I know that life and business kind of overlap.
So it's really powerful. And then really understanding energetics behind things. Like I always say, um, I work with the energy and the strategy. of your personal brand. I like that. Yeah. That's very powerful. Very powerful. Yeah. It's kind of, I really have settled into that last few months and things like your brand colors.
It's not just, you know, orange means like passion or creativity. It's okay. Like what is the frequency of orange and knowing like, you know, the different wavelengths of color and how that might impact a client or resonate with them because the unconscious mind runs 95 percent of your brain. And so.
Tiffany-Ann: That's a terrifying thought. I like to be under a little more control than that, but to be honest.
Stef: But it's that much. So we're trying to do so much stuff consciously, and even in a personal brand point of view, that we forget that a lot of the stuff we do is just automatic. And so we need to tap into those kind of things, and it becomes next level in your personal brand.
Tiffany-Ann: So, you know, tying into that color discussion and whatnot. So let's chat. Let's go back to, you know, day one when I met you. So here I am. I've left the corporate space and I am as about vanilla as they come. I, you know, I've talked about it before. I didn't really have a plan. I knew I wanted to leave corporate.
I knew I had Like, oodles of education, and tons of experience in a variety of different things, but I had zero idea of how I was going to package that up and offer it. I just really, and it was really the only time in my life I've ever made such a huge jump with very little plan. And I remember sitting at one of my, the lunches, I had, I was a partner in my previous role, so I had to get bought out, and we're sitting over at White Spot, two business partners are there and we're talking, and one of them says, "Well, what's your plan? Where are you going?" And I said, "I don't have one". And he's like, "TA, I know you. There is zero chance you have zero plan. So, like, it's fine. We know you're leaving. Like, it's okay. Like, we want to be excited for you. Where are you going?" And I was being completely honest. I had no plan. But I was like, no, no, I'm not.
But then he, to this day, he says, like, I did not believe you. That this was the zero plan. So, I've decided we're leaving. I have no plan, but I know that I'm gonna need a website, I'm gonna need to get online, I'm gonna need to do something, and so first step, I need some branding photos. So I find stuff online and, uh, amazing.
I love the images. I can pick out your images, like, in a sea of social media and be like, Oh, yep, Stef, Stef, Stef. I just, I love, I love the images. So I'm like, this is, I know I need, this is what I need to do. So we go and we, I have never been so nervous in my life, because I don't do photos, I don't do this.
Stef: And you told me that when you showed up.
Tiffany-Ann: I was so, so nervous. So nervous. And so, that process, there was, at the beginning of the shooting, you're gonna even walk me through in a second what that process was, because we ended, I felt, I had fun. I looked forward to doing it again, and let me tell you, I would not, that was very, that would not, was not predictable.
So, how did we go from, you know, vanilla, terrified? Terrified. Legit. To actually having, like, my first setup I still use those photos to this day. Yeah, they were great. And I look relaxed. Yeah, the miracle worker right here. So, so what? And I remember there were questions you asked, you asked what what my offer was.
And I remember thinking, Oh, shoot, that's the million dollar question. And I don't remember what I said, but it was like a little, uh, you know, businessy things. Good things for people. With businesses. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So.
Stef: Well, I remember, like, before the shoot, I said to you, um, like, I send out a questionnaire and I say, it's not really a questionnaire, it's just tips, and one of the things it says is what to wear.
And I said, don't wear all black. I did not know very much about the other side. That was a real challenge for me at that moment. Cause I was like, bring some personality, bring some color. And when we do the session, it was just a quicker session, like maybe half an hour. Uh, we wanted to at least have some sort of color in there.
And at the time. Oh, we're just wearing black. So I, I remember you brought a purple shirt because I love purple. My branding is all about purple. And it was almost like, okay, I'm going to, I'm going to give her something so that she believes me that I can wear colors.
Tiffany-Ann: It's the only, it's the only non black shirt I had.
Stef: Yeah, and uh, yeah, I remember that. And I remember exactly where we shot, and I specifically picked a spot that I think would work for a very neutral brand, because I remember you saying like, I'm just black on black, and then when you showed up it was black on black, even carrying like a black cup and everything, and I was like, yeah, okay, black on black, we'll get some colour in these photos.
Tiffany-Ann: The branding, the branding at that time was Black, white, beige, and grey.
Stef: Oh yeah, yeah, some personality right there.
Tiffany-Ann: Here's the thing, that was my personality at that time. People kept saying you need to be authentically you, and I kept thinking this is me. People don't know the real you, the one that other people see.
I'm like, this is me. It was a bit of a process to get here. This is the real me. But it was like, I, and now, I mean, my branding is not black and white anymore, but it's taken, it took two years to like fully, it's, it's been a journey to, to really, and I think it was years of corporate conditioning of like black suits, plain, it was a vibe, it, the corporate was a vibe, but trying to take that to being a solopreneur at that time, was you, I lost the vibe, kept the black, and now we've worked back, and now, now we have a vibe again.
And now it's orange.
Stef: Yeah, and like that's part of the process too is like, especially in a personal brand point of view, you could totally have a beautiful personal brand that's black, white, and gray. Easily. Easily. But does it match who you're trying to talk to, and does it really match you? Or does it match the person that you think you are?
Or does it match the person that you want to be or the merge of the two, right? And so even showing up with you that day and like, I know when people are nervous, but it's my job to un nervous you. And I really feel like that's where some of the NLP stuff comes in and the energy stuff because Uh, like for lack of a better term, whether or not people believe it, I can feel people's energy. Right. And so like instantly it's like the jitters and I'm like, okay, so we're good.
Tiffany-Ann: I was giving, I was giving nervous vibes, wasn't I?
Stef: Yeah. And so it's just becomes a process of a few like direct questions, the right questions, even simple things like, like, what are you doing here? Right. And just. A lot of distraction, I remember that day, and that's just part of my process when we take photos.
And I saw this person in front of me on a new adventure, and I was really excited for her. I never, I never thought I'd see you again, honestly, cause I
Tiffany-Ann: You weren't gonna lose me that easily. I am a bit of a fangirl of the work. It's fine, I can own it, I can own it. But I, you know what, it's been a long time.
I, I see your photos because I see, you know, you follow in business networks or whatever. And it's like people, it scrolls by, and I can pick out the work. I can! And like, ah, and then I like do a little thing, and I'm like, yep. Confirmed! Confirmed! It has, your photos capture an energy, a personality, that is, I don't see, that's not common.
It's, it, they're these, they're beautiful photos, but they're, it's also this, this personality. And it's funny because I look at my photos, and, and, you know, I often, you go back in time, and you don't like photos of yourself. I truly love. I love those photos from our first shoot. I love all the photos that we've ever taken because they capture this, this side of me that I feel, but oftentimes people, you know, they'll say like, "Oh, who is the real you" or whatever.
And I'll think, but this is real me, but the photos show the me that I think I am. And it's this weird, it's, I, I never thought I would ever get to the point where I like photos of myself or feel like they, they repre, truly represent me, but they do.
Stef: Yeah, that makes me so happy. Like that's really my goal.
It's so hard to convey that even in marketing, like, as much as I'll talk about that and share testimonials of that. It's just the one thing that you can't really convey, and actually, one of my mentors told me the other day, he's like, um, because I photographed him before, and he says, I asked him, I'm like, well, what is it?
I don't get it. I'm just showing up with a camera. I see things. Yeah. My job is to help you feel calm and take that moment where you're shining through, right? And that to me seems like second nature, so it just seems really weird to me, but that's been a lot of the feedback that I've gotten. It's just like, this camera is, it's just a tool to capture that right moment of a personal brand.
And a personal brand is really like, that person that's shining in a moment who's trying to connect with somebody else. And I absolutely love that. And I think that's one thing that is hard to convey through like marketing even, right? Because a lot of times when you're looking for a photographer, it's just, Oh, pretty pictures.
That looks good, right? But yeah, a lot of, especially lately over the last year or so, I get people who say to me, "Hey, just did branding photos. Like a six months ago, but I need some new ones" they come to me and they said hated the experience last time after our session They're like, "I finally feel like me," like we're talking people who are in their 40s 50s Yeah, who say "I've never felt like a photo feels like me."
Tiffany-Ann: Mm hmm
Stef: And I say that's like one of the most humbling things you can hear from a like, from a, from a photographer, and still to this day, like, even when you say it, I'm like, hee, hee, hee, right? But it is, it is my strength, and I, you just can't put, like, you can't really qualify that or quantify it in a, in a measurable way, unless you experience it.
Tiffany-Ann: Well, it's interesting because, you know, and little background, so I have taken quarterly photos with you since the beginning of my business journey. And it's interesting because I have evolved in that time and you can really see even in the photos. Um, they capture who in those specific, you know, parts of the journey that I was or was, you know, what I was going through and I, I think back to a time and, and so, you know, at the beginning I remember getting, first shoot, you saying like what to wear, what not to wear, and like stressing.
Like, stressing about what I was gonna wear. And then I get to the point where I like, don't stress as much. Like, I have my collection of different things. I see something that's business, you know, and I grab it, and like, you know, I got my bag of tricks, and we, you know, what are we gonna do today, and whatnot.
But the one shoot I was having, and I, to be honest, don't remember why I was having a shitty day, but let me tell ya, it was not a good day. And I drove to the shoot thinking, I, how am I gonna pull this off? Like, I was almost in tears. I don't honestly, at this point, have no idea what I was so upset about.
That's not even really my vibe.
Stef: No.
Tiffany-Ann: And we got there and I thought, ooh, how are we going to do this? And we chatted for a little bit and you said, do you want to take some photos today or should we just like reschedule? And I said, let's do them. And that collection of photos is actually one of my favorites.
We did some fun stuff. We did, we laughed, we did something and you know, it's, and I'm in like a pretty basic, you know, I was like in sneakers, jeans, and like a black long sleeve tee, like nothing fancy, not a huge amount of makeup, just. And those, it's, it's, so it's so funny that we, we almost put so much pressure, so much pressure to pick the right outfit, and the right this, and the right that, and you know it's like, oh my gosh, we're only, and, but it doesn't necessarily have to be that way.
Stef: No, and I really love that you bring up that point because that's It's photography. It's also just personal brands in general, uh, that I believe that a lot of people try and put their best self out there on social media. They try and put the best photo possible of themselves out there. And sometimes it gets to the point where it doesn't even look like them anymore.
And that to me is a concern, right? Um, funny enough, you know, I showed up to record this podcast at a place that we, um, that we rented out. And the front desk person knew exactly who I was because I'm dressed the same I would be on my photos. I'm wearing the same amount of makeup, which is pretty much nothing.
Uh, I've done my hair today at least, right? Right? Um, you know, but it's consistent. It's consistent. So even when you're putting yourself on a reel, when you're putting yourself even in professional photos, I always say, Do a little extra. But nothing like over the top. If you do not wear makeup, as much as I am a big advocate to get hair and makeup done so you look and feel great, but if you're not somebody who wears makeup every day, don't do that.
Or at least just get a quick polish, right? If you're somebody who does wear makeup every day, likes that polished look. Absolutely every day. Go for it. Get, get a little bit extra. Or even if you like are a little self-conscious about like some people, like maybe you're like, myself, I got really red skin or something.
Right. Just be yourself a little bit extra and I really feel like that's a great way of looking at your personal brand too, right? Where. Be yourself, but don't put everything out there. Be yourself, be a little extra professional. So, uh, be yourself, be, um, you know, a little bit more out there. Be yourself and be a little more confident, right?
Tiffany-Ann: So one of the things someone told me in my, you know, very talented person. Very talented. Um, told me that at the, it was probably a few months in and I was really struggling with like the vulnerability piece. I, you know, and, and to this day I will say I could be the nerd that works in a closet. I don't, like, that's not, being out and people are like, no, no, you like, you're on YouTube, you have a podcast, you do this and do that.
I'm like, but I, that's not my natural tendency. And she said at the beginning of this person, who I still have, I have a great deal of respect for, and she said until you can show. that you have a sink full of dirty dishes and people can relate to you, you will never succeed online.
Stef: Yeah.
Tiffany-Ann: And I said, but I don't have a sink full of dirty dishes. And she said, people don't want to hear that. They don't relate to that. And I was like, but I, and so it's funny because there are certain things that I did in my mission to being authentic because everyone kept telling me that I wasn't being me. And I felt like I was being me, but people didn't. And so I was like, well, they don't like this version of me.
So I need to change it up. And so, I started, and you can see in my brand photos, you can see I went through this phase where I was wearing like, band t shirts with flannel, and like, I went like, okay, I can be like, nerdy relatable, I got this. And I was traveling for business, and I was standing in the security line at the airport, you know when you gotta take your shoes off and the carpet's dirty and it's awkward, and the like, security guard says to me, he starts talking to me about guitars.
And I'm like, what is go I, I have no idea what this man is talking about. He's like, "your shirt! I like that brand of guitar too!" And I was like, oh boy. First of all, I don't know what you're talking about. And second of all, like, oh man, I've, I've gone too far. Yeah. It was this moment, literally, with my shoes off on the dirty carpet in the security line, that I was like, this is not me either.
I've gone too far the other way. And so it's funny, you do go through, and I, so I feel like I've kind of gone back. So now I'm a little more corporate vibe. Whatever that means. A little more, uh, you know, blazer versus band t shirt. Eh, but it's still with way more personality and authentic me. But yeah, I was like, oh boy, I don't, too far, too far, too far.
Stef: Well, like, yeah, I feel like that's kind of with everything, right? Like, um, I believe that if you're yourself, you should be adjusting who you're targeting. More than trying to adjust yourself to who you're targeting, right? Because ultimately there's, there's the perfect clients for all of us. And when we focus on what lights us up internally and what we want to achieve in this world, and how that can help others, then we start to find people who are going to want to look for the person who's wearing, you know, a nice shirt, but maybe sneakers on or something like that, right?
They're looking for that person that they see themselves, you know. And ultimately, somebody is going to relate to somebody who doesn't have dirty dishes and somebody who's going to relate to the dirty dishes, right? And so you really got to find, okay, what's going to be that nice balance of, "hey, this is me. This is naturally authentic me." But like, I feel like you're right. Like sometimes people try a little hard to be naturally authentic and it's. It's backwards, right?
Tiffany-Ann: I got to the point where I was like, you know what? I am vanilla, but can I just be the like, fancy vanilla with the little black flakes? You know, like the, the like, premium vanilla.
I'm like, can, I'm just rockin premium vanilla and that's me. And it was like that transition of just like, embracing who I was and just being like, no, you know what? Like, this is me. And, and you know, now I have done some silly, you know, stuff on Facebook or Reels or whatever and sometimes I do way more serious.
Like, I feel like it's just a good blend, but all of it, it's, it's taken two years and I can say, number one, my closet is no longer all black. Number two, I am just, it's, it's authentically me. Which has spilled out into all parts of my life, which is, that's, that's the life changing part, is finding who you are.
Stef: Yeah, and I think, I think that is such a beautiful journey in creating a personal brand. Because it's almost like Well, as entrepreneurs, we're so, so much of us is in our business. Yes. So why wouldn't you have a personal brand, right? To say like, "Hey, this is who I am behind this business. Uh, this is how you can connect with me," right?
And it also gives us that opportunity to, you know, still be in a professional environment that says, you know, this is me, this is authentically me, but you don't need to, you don't need to see absolutely everything because I am a believer that the world doesn't see, need to know everything about you, right?
Especially now where people, you know, it isn't about a career life to I don't like the perfection, over perfection, like, everything's perfect, I'm making all this money, all this kind of stuff. I do like a little bit of reality behind it, and that's what you should be sharing, right? Like, if you're having a tough day and you feel like that's something you want to share, or even just putting a message up saying, "Hey guys, had a tough day, I'm not going to answer your email today."
That's pretty real, that's pretty relatable, but you don't need to spurt out the whole reasons why, if you don't feel like it. And it's the same, it really comes down to even though your personal brand is about you, it's not for you. And I think that's the hugest thing that people need to shift in their mindsets.
And that's usually the most helpful for my clients, even for photography. Because I say to them, as soon as they show up, I'm pretty sure I said it to you. These photos are of you, but they're not for you. So stop scrutinizing yourself as if they're for yourself. Yeah, you might feel really good, and I really hope you feel good after.
But the reality is, it's not a portrait. It's a business shot, right? And you're trying to say that like, you know, even in my sessions now, it's like, especially the full ones is what is the story you're trying to tell right now?
Tiffany-Ann: Yes.
Stef: Right. And so when you start taking, ironically, with a personal brand, when you take a tiny bit of yourself out, because sometimes people are putting a little bit too much and they forget that they're actually trying to serve somebody else.
Tiffany-Ann: Yeah.
Stef: Right. And so this personal brand literally just says. This is me, so that it can help you, and then instead of just, you know, the portrait that you got, the beautiful portrait of you, um, for personal reasons that goes on your wall or something, right? But that's not what we're doing.
Tiffany-Ann: Right.
Stef: And it's the same when you're marketing, take photography out of that even, right?
Like, yeah, some people ask me, like, what should my brand colors be? And we might start with what your favorite colors are, but the truth is If your favorite color is red, but that completely conflicts with your audience, we're not going to use it. Maybe we'll use an accent color to bring a little of you in it.
I personally use purple because it is my favorite color, but I also like other colors. Uh, but it works with my audience. I have a client, her favorite color is purple, but we use yellow in her brand because it makes more sense for her audience. So it comes back to the It's about you, but it's not for you.
Tiffany-Ann: What a powerful statement that is, because ultimately, we really start to, you know, overthink and obsess over things. As it's our own and it really is more about the clients and almost conveying the, you know, whether that's credibility, you know, relatability, whatever it is that appear in that industry, but you know, it's, it's your really just, it's your resume, if you will, of like, hey, I can, I'm here and I'm the right person to help you.
And so whatever photos and whatever brand colors and whatever messaging helps. You connect so that you can serve those people is really what ends up serving everyone the best whether it's your favorite color or not
Stef: Yeah, totally and when you work from a personal side of things you start to realize that your clients are a lot like you
Tiffany-Ann: Mm hmm.
Stef: So really you do start to target yourself in one form or another.
Tiffany-Ann: Yeah
Stef: Or like, I do a lot of values work, especially through the coaching side of things. So rather than just writing down what you think you value, we do the process through, again, an unconscious process of what do you actually value, what inside is driving you.
Tiffany-Ann: Right.
Stef: And I can actually, you know, we can, we can figure that out. We can rearrange it if it needs to be, and it's not an alignment. And then once you start marketing from the values you have in your business, not your life, your business. Then you can start matching it with Soulmate clients and then all of a sudden everything comes to an alignment, right?
And so, yeah, it's still got that personal side, but really every single personal thing about you needs to also connect to an intentional thing about your clients.
Tiffany-Ann: Wow. It's, it's so much more than just, you know, is it a pretty logo? Is it the color I like? I had someone reach out actually, uh, recently and was like, Hey, I just want a logo.
It was a family member. I need help. I need, I need new business cards. I just need a logo. And I was like, just a logo? I was like, I don't think anybody offers just a logo anymore. I was like, I, she's like, yeah, we like tried with like Canva and like it was, I don't know, like obviously not the right thing.
And I'm like, well, I mean, there are some nice logos out there that have been designing Canva. This is not a Canva problem. I mean, like, yes, there's obviously people who are using other tools, but. I'm sure that there are some successful businesses out there that have had a logo that they've designed out of Canva.
And I just said, you know, a brand is so much more than just the logo on the business card. And so we, we kind of got chatting. I, I had no idea this. You could see, you know, when someone's eyes are kind of like big and they're like, I didn't realize this was the can of worms that I was opening.
Stef: Yeah.
Tiffany-Ann: Yeah.
Stef: And really, realistically, you can start from just a logo. Put your name down, put a little pretty picture on. It doesn't really matter.
Tiffany-Ann: Right.
Stef: Something that's better than nothing.
Tiffany-Ann: Yes.
Stef: But when you start making an impact, and you want to make some actual money, Let's put some intention behind it.
Tiffany-Ann: Well, and this is someone who, you know, started, they've got, they're about three years in, they've got their, they're growing their team, so they're kind of, they had that original version.
Now they're looking to make some investment and level up. And so, you know, but if we're going to do that, then we need to level up in it. A couple areas more than just the logo. Because you know what? There is, uh, you know, there are some very successful businesses out there with terrible logos.
Stef: Yeah.
Tiffany-Ann: And it doesn't stop them. I think a lot of times people say, "oh, I need to get the perfect name and I need the perfect logo and then I can get started." And I think that that's not always the case. That, that a brand and your presence is so much more than just the logo and obsessing, like allowing a logo to prevent you from starting. It's just crazy.
Stef: Well, we could dive deep and then talk about how that's like a, a block, right?
Tiffany-Ann: Right.
Stef: Uh, but that's the beauty of personal brands even too. You can get by on a personal brand with no logo and realistically, it should be your own name or form of it. Right. So I almost like personal brand because I'd start taking away.
The things that you, you stop behind, right? I don't have a business name. Well, do you really need a business name for a personal brand? No, because you can, and you know, that puts me into a little bit of a tangent or a personal brand so nice because I don't know about you, but I expect my business to change over the years.
And it has, right? Like I've been in business, really, I've had some sort of business almost my entire life. I started making money online when I was 12, right. Uh, and throughout my entire life, I've had some sort of side gig, you know, even just delivering flyers for my dad, who's a realtor. Right. And so I know what it's like to run a business and do you think it's anything the same?
No, no, of course not. Right. And so the cool thing about personal brand is you can build this thing where it's, it can travel with you, with your changes, obviously the client might change or whatever, that kind of thing. So I honestly think sometimes people are a little scared of personal brands because some of the, some of the roadblocks are taken away.
You know, the logo you can get by without that. I would say you get one, especially if you want to have a business that does have a, um, a name to it. Right. Because there is the difference between a personal brand versus a business name. Yeah. Uh, which we could go down that rabbit hole, of course, but yeah.
And so it kind of takes, it starts to take away the excuses not to market yourself as well. And I think maybe, you know, you asked me at the beginning, like, why are people afraid? And it's like. Because it's really easy. It's, it's easy to start.
Tiffany-Ann: But it's also easy to come up with almost personal excuses as to why, like, creating these, like, well, I, I would, I would do it, but I don't have this and I don't have that and this and that.
I was actually listening on TikTok, uh, the other day and I, I got on this, you know when you, on any form of social media where you watch one video, like the full thing and all of a sudden you're seeing like a lot of that. So I came across this guy who I've never seen before, Dave Ramsey, some kind of debt.
He's like some kind of finance debt repayment expert guy. So he's got these people calling him and they're talking about their financial situation, and I may have been living under a rock. People would be like, this is obvious. Of course, everyone knows who he is, but this is my first time. And so this kid calls in.
He's 16 years old. He's got very traditional parents. And he has been, who would, who wanted to go to college. Entrepreneurship is not the route. We are not doing entrepreneurship. We don't do a lot online. So this, this kid's been doing a dropship store through Shopify for the last nine months. He's got $300,000 in a PayPal account.
And he said, if my mom finds out, she's going to make me shut it down. But like, I'm trying to buy my first house in cash here and like, I got to keep going. And I'm like, here's a kid who probably, I mean, how much money could he have started with? Let's be real, he was 16 and is like, keeping it on the DL from his parents.
And so, and now you, you know, he just got, he just started. He picked something and he got started and now he got $300,000 in a Paypal account. I mean, if that does not show you that just, just start, just get going. I don't know what does.
Stef: Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I love that. Yeah. And real, like, think of all the YouTube people even, right? Who have just started a YouTube channel. Yeah. And the only thing they have behind it is a name they picked. Right? Yeah. Like, what is it? Uh, MrBeast.
Tiffany-Ann: Yes.
Stef: Start MrBeast, like, that's, what an amazing person to, like, basically dominate the internet.
Tiffany-Ann: Mm hmm.
Stef: It makes so much money, and if you haven't checked him out, go check him out, because it's really cool, and this is, like, That, that's his brand, Mr. Beast.
Tiffany-Ann: It's funny because he does an amazing job of just appealing to such a wide audience. And I could, you know, when you actually watch, like, the interviews of him about his work and whatnot, I mean, some of his stuff, I would never, like, that's just not my, zero alignment in terms of the type of content.
What I love is anyone who is doing something that they are so fueled by passion and they nerd out on like the little details and, you know, optimizing based on like, well, we did it a hundred times and this and we determined that is the part where I'm like, I could watch him talk all day because that is the part where I'm like, yes, like it just takes that level of passion, however that applies to someone's business.
You know, it's being an entrepreneur is hard work. This whole, you know, it's like time freedom, this, that, but it's like, when it, it doesn't feel when it's, when it's passion, when you love what you do, then you're like, I'm in, like I, it's, it's fun.
Stef: Yeah. Like even, um, I had dinner last night with some old photography clients and she said to me, it's just like, you know, how do you, how do you run the entrepreneur life?
Right. She's like, it must be so hard. She's like, I don't think I could have that stomach. And I'm like, because. Because the alternate to me is worse, right? And I, you know, maybe that sounds a little pessimistic, but like, I love being an entrepreneur, but again, it's hard. It's so, so hard. But to me, it's harder to go to a nine to five, listen to somebody talk about a bunch of stuff that I'm like, I don't agree with you, uh, and to just, to just clock in and clock out. To me, that's harder. To me, it's harder to basically like. Dance monkey dance because, you know, you got to go in at nine and you got to start working. Your brain's got to start working and it's got to go till five. How is that possible, right? For brains like us, right? And so, yeah, I totally agree with the, with the passion and you really have to love what you do. And you have to show that too. And people, people pick up on that.
Tiffany-Ann: Yeah, my son, recently, we were talking about summer plans. The kids are still struggling to understand, you know, over summer break that like Adults don't get summer holidays. That's, I mean, like, we're gonna do fun things and we're gonna make plans and we're gonna do all this stuff, but like, I don't just stop working for two months.
That's not a thing. And he's like, "I'm sorry you have to work, Mom. I'm sorry. You just have to spend all day doing stuff." Like, you could tell it, he, it was, I was like, I love, I love what I do. And he's like, what? But you can tell that it's almost like, you know, like what you hear, what children are hearing is like, you know, "Oh, work, I have to work.
Work is not good." And I was like, I love what, I love what I do. And he was, he was very, we ended up having a whole conversation about like passion, loving what you do. And, you know, I actually traveled recently. We took a family trip. to travel from Vancouver to Seattle to meet up. We had a client I've worked with for a long time and her family was in Seattle for her son's basketball tournament.
So they'd flown from, you know, into Seattle. And so we went down and stayed at their hotel, um, in a, you know, and met in the hotel lobby for breakfast. It was the only time she had around all the basketball games. And it was, you know, just connecting with their family. I mean, we've worked together for a couple of years, but.
And I was like, I cannot believe that I have connected with people in a way that I would travel, you know, three plus hours to go have breakfast with, and we had, like, our whole family had an amazing time. And I was like, see, that is, that is those, like, just right clients.
Stef: Yeah, yeah. And you wouldn't be able, do you even have that connection with a co worker half the time? Maybe.
Tiffany-Ann: I find that those types, usually when you're, in the trenches with people, you align with people. And so, but it, you know, often it's very, it's not as common, anything really, even it's the parents you meet, whether it's at like, you know, through kids sports or through coworkers or whatever, you feel so connected, but then when you start working together, it fizzles so quickly because it's not real connection. It's just like proximity.
Stef: Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's where like, even the personal brand comes into, right? Like, you know, if you're. If you're a massage therapist and somebody's looking for 20 massage therapists and you happen to have, like, a cat, and you're a cat person, you're gonna be like, Yeah, maybe I'll go check this person out.
We can talk about cats. Right? But realistically, are you gonna go on a cat date? No. Are you gonna give each other cat gifts? Probably not. That would be kind of weird, right? I don't know.
Tiffany-Ann: The cat people are as breedable in their own way.
Stef: That's true. But, uh, sorry, I didn't mean cat people. Um, love you guys.
But yeah, like, it's just an example where Realistically, that's just somebody that says, Hey, that's the deciding factor for me. Right. You know, those clients that I went out with last night, one of the reasons why they, they picked me was a, I had a wiener dog on my website. Right. I have a wiener dog. She's like my kid.
Um, she is my kid. Uh, we're totally obsessed with her. She's totally needy. So she's part of my brand because she literally is every part of my life. Even, even now, if I'm on a zoom call, you need to know I have a dog because she's going to walk around and squeak her toy. So like you need to know that's going to happen.
Right. And so I put her as part of my brand and they hired me because of the dog. Right? Does the dog have anything to do with my photos? No. Does it? Is she even going to be there on the wedding day that it was a wedding client at the time? No, of course not. But they had a weird dog as well. So they were like, weird dog, weird dog, right?
So that's where the things about personal brand, like pick a few things that people can be like, hey, that's cool. Let's talk about that. Yeah. And it also like deflates the awkwardness, right? So could you imagine if Nike's just like, um, Hey, like, let's talk about, um, you know, soap operas or something totally unrelated.
That's not gonna work for them because they're a corporation. There's multiple people. There's not somebody you know you're gonna connect with. You don't know the person who you're actually gonna talk to, right? But a personal brand, you know the person you're gonna talk to. Or at least you could technically build a personal brand around a few people.
But ultimately, you know you can show up. Start talking, right? You know how many people show up and start talking about purple to me or wiener dogs, right? Because those are two main anchors in my, in my personal brand, right? And do you think that actually has anything to do with business? No. But it's something that I've put in there.
I could talk more about my marriage, those kind of things, but it doesn't really fit who the clients I want to work with, right? You know, my husband pops up on my stories once in a while, but that's it. And that's where, like, creating those connections. And as you said, right, like It will fizzle out. If you take the photography out of that relationship, even though we're both wiener dog parents, we probably won't hang out.
Maybe, maybe it's a very slim chance though, but we have something to talk about. And I really feel that's what encompasses a personal brand overall, is give your people something to talk about. From day one.
Tiffany-Ann: Well, because there is an awkwardness sometimes. Especially, I mean, what you do. I remember being so terrified.
And getting that conversation. And then you're kind of like, oh, okay. We're talking, we're doing, we got this. And then it's okay. But, you know, I took my daughter to get her hair done for her birthday. And so she was getting like, foils. First time she's ever had like, professional. I foiled her hair. But this time we were going to level up.
My daughter's not a small talker. She's not, and so now it's like a long time in the salon chair, and you could tell that the hairstylist like asked her a few questions to get things going, and then it was cricket. And she's like, "Mm hmm. Mm hmm. No". And I was like, I went over and was like, "Hey, how's it going?"
Because I was like, Oh, like we're trying to chat. And it was kind of a life lesson piece a little bit for my daughter because she's like, "she keeps talking to me." And You know, that's part of her job. Like, she's gonna challenge you. She's like, but she, "I don't know her." "Well, you're going to." And so, but it's that, that piece of, like, finding those, you know, obviously this hairstyles could not find the common ground, the wiener dog in that relationship because there was, there was nothing.
Stef: Yeah. Oh, yeah. It's so funny. And the funny thing is, too, is like, I think about my own experience. One of the reasons I got into personal branding is I'm like you, I'm actually quite introverted in general. I need my time and space by myself. I have learned how to network and be in a room for the people and talk and be like most people from my personal brand think I'm super outgoing, super extroverted, have to have people around all the time, super confident, but it's a learned behavior.
Right. And so like it's the same thing conversation where I've had so many times where Because I'm the person leading the photo shoot or something where I've had to learn those questions. But I'm also not a small talk person. So if you're going to have a shoot with me, you're not going to necessarily talk about the weather. We're going to talk, like, what are you trying to achieve in this lifetime, right? Yeah.
Tiffany-Ann: Let's go deep.
Stef: Yeah, let's go deep.
Tiffany-Ann: Let's dive in.
Stef: So like, yeah.
Tiffany-Ann: But that's you also nerding out on something you're passionate about. And so, you know, that's That's, it's gotta be, it's gotta be, and no one wants to talk about the weather.
Although there are certain relationships in life, I find I talk about the weather a lot. And I realize now that we're talking about the weather again, we don't really connect because I'm pulling out empty straws.
Stef: Yeah, and that's such a great segue back to a personal brand where it's like, if you're trying to connect with a client, they're not really sure why they need your business or maybe they do, but you're the expert in their business.
You can't nerd out about your business. On its own, because people don't know everything, right? Like, if I talk, if I jump in and say, Hey, like, let's pick out your brand colors, because the frequencies need to do this, they're going to be like, what? But if we start off with something, and they come to me, and they say, hey, I like purple, I like purple, can we be friends?
Right? Then it becomes so much easier, because we like to nerd out what we're, what we're good at, right? Like, I even said the term the other day, drip marketing, and to me, that's a no brainer term, like, yeah. It's something I've bored and bred and lived through my entire life with. It seems like a normal term to me.
If you're not in marketing, you have no idea what that means. And I'm like, literally just trying to explain, like, drips, right?
Tiffany-Ann: Well, that's the thing. When you're in your zone of genius, certain things seem obvious. And you're like, of course this is the way. But people who are hiring you are not thinking that's obvious, because if it was obvious to them, they perhaps wouldn't need your service.
And so it's kind of understanding that just because it's so clear, that's because you're so good at that piece, and it isn't always super obvious. I actually, I was at an event sometime and someone, someone made a great comment and it was, you know, if you don't know what dry cleaning is, you're not on Google looking up dry cleaning.
You're saying, how do I fix my wrinkly pants? You're focused on the like, I have wrinkly pants and I don't know what to do. So if you're just like, my dry cleaner is the very best. We're the best dry cleaner. We do dry cleaning and we're amazing. Someone doesn't yet know that they actually need dry cleaning.
They're still like, I have wrinkly pants. You have to connect that the dry cleaning is the solution. To the pants, and then you can tell them that you're the best dry cleaner, but first you have to, you know, make them aware that you have a solution for their problem.
Stef: Yeah, and you have to create know, like, and trust, too, because why would somebody randomly listen to a person? We don't got time to randomly listen to just anyone, I mean, unless you're scrolling TikTok. Um, right?
Tiffany-Ann: Guilty. Guilty.
Stef: But realistically, why are you going to listen to me? Right? You're going to listen to me because you saw something you liked. Now you're listening to me, now I'm going to tell you what it is that you need.
Tiffany-Ann: Right. Yeah, it's um, there's a lot, it's, there's a lot of opinions. There's a lot of different people all offering the, you know, I'm here, I can help. And you see in a Facebook community, someone will ask for a service provider and everyone will recommend Watts. I mean, you know, and, and so there's, people have options.
And so really building that, what makes you different? How do you, how do you actually help someone who's so creep? So key for that success. Yeah. So Stef, where can someone, someone's like, Hey, I really want to dive into this branding piece. I realized that I need some alignment. Where can someone connect with you? Where can they learn more about this process?
Stef: Yeah, so obviously the number one place is my website, which is steffournier.com. Uh, I am a Stef with an F, so it's S-T-E-F-F-O-U-R-N-I-E-R if I know how to spell my own name. Um, the best place to find me is on honestly, like Instagram. Uh, I'm the violet Stef, so @thevioletstef, again with an F. Uh, you can find me across all social media platforms with that handle.
And then also I like to encourage people to check out. soulmateclient. com because that's actually my course platform where you can dive in and actually grab like a one hour course on creating a brand color palette that's with intention, the energy, the strategy behind everything actually gives you all the extra information that you're not going to get just from Googling what does red mean? So I always encourage people to kind of check those out, but yeah, hang out with me on Instagram. That's usually where I'm going to answer the most.
Tiffany-Ann:
Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being here. It's been awesome.
Stef: Yeah. Thank you. I think we could talk for hours. So I'm so glad that you invited me and I'm so glad we made this work.
Thank you.