Fight, Flight, or Boundary

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You know that feeling when you know you are uncomfortable with the lack of boundaries in a situation? Us too, which is why this is an essential episode! It's all about service-based business owners and professionals who are looking for ways to create boundaries within their personal and professional lives.

All right, Barb.

Thank you so much for joining.

I have been so excited.

I I've kept an eye on my calendar and
I've been so excited to talk with you,

um, you know, late this evening for you.

Um, so why don't you just jump
right in and, and explain kind

of who you are and what you do.

So my name is Barb mangle.

I'm the founder and CEO of higher
power coaching and consulting.

And I am a boundaries coach
and I am also a podcaster.

I am the host of fragmented to whole
life lessons from 12 step recovery.

And I had now have 157 episodes.


That's a milestone.

The core it is.


So do you, um, have weekly
episodes or how long has it

taken you to do, to do the 157?

I started in, so it's been through.

So I do them weekly.

Um, they're mostly 10 to 20 minute
episodes of me sharing my w in recovery.

We call it our experience,
strength and hope.

And then when I got to episode 100,
I decided to celebrate by having

some guests and that went over well.

So I decided every 10th
episode I have guest.

So those were a little bit longer.

Um, but yeah, and I, in the
beginning, wasn't sure I'd have

enough content and I have like pages
of ideas and they're never ending.

I always, you know, I look back at
some of the recordings and whatnot from

the podcasting and I always feel so.


Like it's so empowered and
energetic after recording podcasts.

And, um, you know, I look at some of
the screenshots and stuff that you

can just it's like truly enjoying and,
um, just kind of living in the moment.

I have fallen in love with the podcasting.


me too.



I would actually love to tell you
a little story about the love of

podcasting, if you don't mind.

If I

yes, of course.

So I'm 59 and when I was probably about
20, I started listening to books on

tape when they were cassettes and I
had to carry the tape player with me

and I would do it when I was exercising
as a way to get me to exercise.

And since day, one of listening to
books on tape, I have wanted to narrate.

And I never could figure out how to do it.

And at one point for five years, I
volunteered for reading for the blind

and dyslexic because I was just like,
I don't know how it's going to happen.

And then I was working in a coworking
place a few years ago and somebody

told me she was narrating audiobooks.

And I was like, oh my God,
how are you doing that?

I want to do that.

So she said, buy this book.

And I bought the book and I read
it and I bought, I downloaded a

Udacity and I bought the microphone.

I bought the earphones and
I started narrating audio.

it was like a lot of work that had
nothing to do with narrating audio books.

In the meantime, this guy I knew in town
approached me about doing the sales for,

he wanted to start a podcasting channel.

And so I was like, no, but I
will do a pitch cause he was

doing a podcasting pitch event.

And so I started podcasting and I
realized I hate narrating audio book.

And then in the last year, like
three different times, I got the

message from different people.

Like desire is planted in you
for a reason, the universe

planted desire you for a reason.

And that desire is going
to come out somewhere.

Maybe not in you, but this is why
certain multiple people will invent

the same thing at the same time.

And after I heard that, I'm like,
oh my God, here's what happened?

The universe planted the desire
for podcasting in me at 20.

But podcasting didn't exist.

So it disguised it.

They're writing audio books.

How cool is that?

Oh, that's incredible.

You know, I love listening to
audio books and I guess they

never really thought about the
connection I listened to podcasts.

Um, you know, I've always, and I, I think
I was late to join the podcast wagon.

Everybody's like, oh,
podcast and this and that.

And I was like, I don't really
know what this is about.

And, and I think, you know,
it was, I was probably like a

year late to the podcast party.

And then once I discovered podcast.


It's like down a rabbit hole.


It's hard for me to read now, even
listen to books on tape because I'm so

into podcasts, you know, I can listen
to a whole, I mean, I don't necessarily

listen to a whole episode at a time.

I mean, I often don't, but I just, you
know, I'll find somebody I'm like, oh,

I want to binge listen to this person.

And people are like, Yeah,
listen to this podcast.

I'm like, I don't have time
because I had like 15 other bug

outside and listened to yet.

totally, totally.

It's funny how we find, um, along
our journey, we find these little

pockets of things that we didn't know.

Um, we didn't know that we loved and,
and then it's, you know, you, you

do it as part of something else, and
then you realize, Hey, this is really.




So you've got your podcast
and you've got your coaching.

And who would you say your primary?

Um, audiences

So it turns out it's mostly women,
I would say from like 30 to like 60.

And they are people, pleasers,
rescuers, fixers, savers, people who

accommodate other people, usually
neglect themselves are burnt out.

You know, my ideal client is
someone who is ripe for change.

Like there, they started to realize,
oh, I'm the one that needs to change as

opposed to it's like, well, if everybody
would cause I used to be like, well,

you know, if everybody would just do
things my way, then it would be, you

know, the world would be a better place
and that doesn't really work like that.



right now, I often, if I think of a
lot of the, the very talented, you

know, who I would consider quite
successful, I feel like being a people

pleaser and I'm going to be honest,
I fall right into that category.

So, uh, correct me if I'm wrong,
but I feel like people pleasing

is part of delivering that
exceptional customer service.

And so.

I'm sure there's a way to find balance.

Um, I'm not sure that I have found
the balance part and I think that's

why I was so interested in chatting
with you today and, and sharing this

because I run into it all the time.

This boundaries, the
concept of boundaries.

I think that the shifts recently, um,
in the world, everybody, you know, is

working more, everyone's working from
home, everyone's working anywhere and

everywhere on the phone all the time.

Boundaries are a bit of
a, it's a loose situation.


So not everyone is doing that.

For example.



Um, you know, and, and there are people
who are not, but there are lots of people.

I was actually I'm in Toastmasters
and I was in Toastmasters today.

And several people were talking about
one reason why it's hard, hard to come

to meetings is because it used to be
that when someone would just send you

an email, now they're like, let's have
a zoom meeting and they don't even care

that you didn't have another meeting.

But, um, you know, I would say.

Like the word that got me to
understand that I needed to go into

recovery was the word codependent.

I had never heard of it before.

A codependent person is someone
who is really reliant on that,

which is outside themselves.

So either other people's opinions
or, you know, they're always checking

in out there rather than in here.

And co-dependence make
fantastic employees.

Because they go above and
beyond the call of duty.

They're conscientious.

They care so much.

What other people think they,
they burn themselves out.

So in the short term, they're
really good employees.

I used to be a really good employee, you
know, but I was also resentful as hell

because people took advantage of me, but
they're not taking advantage of me when

I am volunteering and that sort of thing.

So the way that.

When I coach my clients, we
always start with, what are

your top three to five values?

What are the most important
things to you in your life?

Because that is going to help you
decide when and where to set boundaries.

Because learning how to set
boundaries is about learning

to live your life on purpose.

You basically go, okay, this
is how I want to live my life.

And then you tell other
people that's what boundary.

So, if you say my family's really
important to me, but you never

spend any time with your family.

You're not living in
line with your values.

So maybe in theory, your family's
really important to you, but that's

not how you're living your life.

And one of the reasons we feel so yucky
when we don't have healthy boundaries is

because we're not living in line with our.

And so the reason I have you think
through your values first is when

you start setting boundaries,
that's what tells you, okay.

If I really do want to spend time
with my family, then that means I'm

not working every single weekend.

That means I am having dinner
with my family from time to time.

So that means either I'm not going
to take, you know, work phone calls

in the evenings, or I'm not going
to check work email on the week.

Or whatever.

So you get to decide how
you want to live your life.

If you want to have the kind of
life where you're checking emails

at work, uh, you know, from work
on the weekend or taking calls a

night, that's perfectly acceptable.

If you are choosing it, if you're
doing it because you feel like you have

to, or because you think people are
going to think you're a bad employee.

That's not good.

And it doesn't mean you have to change
it Right, now, but it means you want

to take a look at that and decide
like, is this how I really want to live


that helpful?

It is.

And you know, it's, it kind of
comes back to, you know, on a,

on a bra on a bigger picture.

One of the things I often say when
we're talking about business processes

and systems is what is the objective
and really here it's what is the values

and bringing it right back to that.

Core piece because it's often,
well, you know, should I do

this or should I do that?

And it's okay, well, what
is the actual objective?

Because you could do both, um,
could you neither, and so why, why

are we even having this discussion?

Um, and, and so I think that, that
it, it always, you know, really

diving into why, what is the value?

What is the objective?

Any, any of the decisions
that we're making.



It's I think it's tough, um, to
create boundaries if you haven't and

you're not endure and you, so you're
trying to create a new precedent.

If you will, you know, you've kind of
gone and taken this time to say, Hey,

I really think I need to, you know,
work on this and make some shifts.

And so, but sometimes those who have
benefited perhaps from the lack of

boundaries, struggle a bit, when you

of course.



And then, you know, if you're not,
if it's not something that you've

practiced and when you get that
pushback, you're like, oh, sorry, sorry.

You're right.

I'm sorry.

That was totally out of line.

And so how do you, how do you work
through that, that transitional piece?

Because that could be a real challenge.

that that's it.

That's the key right there.

That's the hardest part.

And it's what the hardest part is really
the feelings that come up for you when you

go to set the boundary for the first time.

You know, I didn't really talk anything
about myself, but, you know, I, I alluded

to like former, like people, pleaser,
rescuer, fixer codependent kind of person.

And so I went through the process of never
having boundaries and setting boundaries.

And I got to tell you, Tiffany,
and I felt like I was going to die.

Here's the thing.

I didn't die.

And now, so I started setting boundaries
when I got into 12 step recovery.

And I was lucky enough that I started,
I did the 12 steps of recovery the

first time with a small group of women.

So we were all going through this together
and it was like they were metaphorically.

And sometimes literally holding my hand.

And I have to tell you, I didn't
realize until maybe a couple years

later, how important it was having
those women doing it with me

because they were cheering me on.

They were telling me, this
is the right thing to do.

They were telling me it is not selfish.

And I'll tell you, one of the first
boundaries I remember setting was I had

this ex-boyfriend we had been broken
up for like eight or nine months and

he would still occasionally email me.

And so let's say I'm at work.

And I go to check my personal
email for some legitimate reason.

And I see an email from him.

Well, Compelled to open it
and respond immediately.

And then I got mad at him for interrupting
my day and it took me awhile to realize,

wait a minute, he's not interrupting me.

I'm doing that.

And I didn't know, I liked
this sounds dumb, but if you're

anything like I was, you get it.

I didn't know that I didn't
have to open that email.

So for me, the first boundary
was don't open the email.



And I started to think of it as
I don't have the psychic space

to open that email right now.

So for me, learning to set boundaries
with myself was the place to start.

That doesn't mean that the feelings
are not going to come up, but this

is where the girlfriends came in
really handy to, you know, to say

like you know, have you ever thought
of not opening that email and call



I know.

no, I didn't.


So then they're like, call me.

So like, I call them, I'm like,
you're not gonna believe this.

I feel like I'm going to die, but I'm
not going to open this email from my

ex my ex boyfriend, not my current
boyfriend, my ex-boyfriend right.

Cause what is he going to think of me?

You know?

And so it started with don't open the
email until I have the psychic space.

Then it was don't even when you do open
it, you don't have to respond immediately.

So pausing pausing is actually my
number one tool of recovery, because

I can't use any of the other tools.

So pausing and allowing myself to like
breathe and relax because when I can

breathe and relax, I'm telling my body
I'm safe when I'm all stressed out like

that I'm in fight or flight mode, which
means I can't think clearly because

our frontal lobe is cut off when we're
in fight or flight mode, which means

we're supposed to fight or flight.

We're not supposed to be.

So when I calmed down, I can think,
and I can use my thinking brain

and rationally, make a decision
about what I'm going to do.

So waiting to open the email,
waiting to respond to the email,

and then eventually deciding not
to respond to some of the emails.

And then I finally texted him and
said, you know, I wish you all.

the best.

I am not interested in any kind of.

It took me two years after that
to even think about, I should

block him or I could block him.

He would still message me and I would
just not open it and I would delete it.

And then I was like, oh my
God, why don't I block him?

So the boundary got easier over time, but
it also took me a long time to sink in

to understand, you know, what I could do.

And I think that.

This process that I went through is what
makes me such a good boundaries coach,

because I know what it feels like in
my body to not have healthy boundaries.

I know what it feels like in my body
to feel like I'm going to die from

not opening an email from someone.

And I know what it feels like.

To have peace and serenity and to live my
life on purpose with healthy boundaries.

And I will tell you something, Tiffany,
and I give way more service to my

community than I ever did before.

I was a volunteer, a holic
before I got into recovery.

And when I first started recovery,
I was like, you know what, I'm

quitting everything, you know,
who I'm going to volunteer for.

I'm going to volunteer for Barb.

And I did think that was
selfish, but here's the thing.

Taking care of yourself is Actually.

self less because I know fill my cup
first and I have so much more to give.

So if I take care of me, you don't have
to, and I have so much more to give.

So I give from a place of abundance
rather than a place of lack.


When I say yes to you, you know that, I
mean it, when I say no, you know that,

I mean it, and I can tell you all the
time people tell me, I trust you, Barb.

I know you're going to tell me the truth.

And so I would say that
is good customer service.

You know, I think I used
to think I was nice.

Well, here's the thing nice is not
anywhere near as important as kind of.

Kind people tell the truth.

They say yes.

When they mean, yes.

They say no.

When they may know, they say,
I don't really care for that.

Thank you.

As opposed to being like, oh Yeah.

I'll have more or
installations when it's not.


So I think being kind is so much
more important than being nice.

So I think it is possible to
give super good customer service.

Now, the transition from having no
boundaries and bending over backwards for

people, and then teaching them, I'm not
going to bend over backwards for anymore.

That is difficult.

And let's say you're a business.

You know, I have worked with a number
of entrepreneurs who have decided

they had to let certain clients go.

It was very, very painful, but what
they did was before they let those

people go, they got new clients
that they set boundaries with.

They got to feel what that felt like.

And it was awesome.

So then they were like, oh, I have
positive reinforcement for doing this.

I know that these people don't think
that I'm mean or bad or whatever,

cause this is all they know.

And so now they have clients
that are paying them what they're

worth, and they can afford both
emotionally and financially to

let go of the other clients.


That's incredibly powerful.


is so let's, let's rewind a little
bit back to the calming down and the

right parts of the brain working.

And, and I mean, there's so many, so many
things in, in everything you just said,

but let's go back to that one with us.

That's the first one that I was
like, Ooh, I want to know more about


So we've got different parts of the
brain and we've got this fight or flight.

And so when we want to turn the fight
or flight off and get back into using

our brain correctly, what kinds of
things can someone do in that moment

you get in your body.


Getting anybody.

So first is take a deep breath.

Just catch your breath because
usually what happens is, you know,

you feel this enormous pressure,
like an elephant on your chest and

you're breathing really shallowly.

So when you start to be able
to breathe, well, take a nice

deep, several full, deep breaths.

You're basically sending
the signal to your body.


Another thing you can do is just
get in your body in whatever

way you need to do that.

For me, I like connecting with my senses.

So I might connect with each one of
my senses separately and then try to

connect with them all at the same time.

It's very hard.

Like I can definitely connect
with four senses that fifth one

it's like, I'm almost getting.

Another thing is to ground yourself,
which to me means if I'm standing,

feel my feet on the floor, on the
ground, if I'm sitting on a couch,

feel all the polices where my body
is physically touching, because what

you're doing is getting present.




And when you're in fight or flight
mode, you're not really present.

You're in.

You know, danger zone and
not able to be present.

So that's why the breath and the senses
are so helpful because you can't tastes

to what's happening in your mouth
when you're done present, you know,

you can't feel your breath coming out
of your nose when you're not present.


I re I remember a long time ago being
at the chiropractor and he was trying

to explain fight or flight to me and
how the effect on the adrenal system.

I was probably like 16.

And I just remember him saying, you
know, back in the stone age, you either

got, you know, eaten by the tiger or
the tiger went away, but you did not

indefinitely get chased by the tiger.

Your, your, your body is not designed
to live in fight or flight for

these like extended periods of time.

right, right.

And that's what I was essentially
doing before recovery.

Um, and one of the programs,
Ironman, we call it addiction to.

Which could also be called addiction
to fear addiction, to chaos.

And it means, you know, I grew up
in a dysfunctional family, so my

system was a little up all the time.

It was like on fire all the time.

And so for me, when I started getting
calm, it was really foreign to me.

And so what many of us do is we
subconsciously do things to activate

that system because to us life equals.

Cortisol adrenaline, you
know, all that kind of stuff.

And I remember one of the women that
when I did the steps in that program,

she had been sober from alcohol for
12 years before she got into this

recovery program that we were working
together and she started getting a

measure of peace for the first time.

And she literally said,
what is this piece?

Shit like, it was so foreign
to her that it was for.

But when you get used to it,
it's pretty simple thing.

To be honest with you.

I mean, I love me some peace now.

So what do you, how, how
has it changed your life?

Um, you know, outside of business
and coaching the difference in the

feeling when you're talking about, you
know, where you used to be, um, and

yeah, probably the best way to talk
about it is romantic relationships.


I've never been married.

I've been in many relationships.

I, I happen to be a heterosexual
woman, so I'm attracted to men.

So I've lived with several men.

Um, I've had a five-year couple
of five-year relationships, a

ten-year relationship, a bunch
of 2, 3, 4 year relationships.

Every fucking one of
them was dysfunctional.

I really had no idea how dysfunctional
they were and here's the thing I.

Um, blamed all my partners.

Well, okay.

Here's the thing.

I blame them for all the bad stuff.

And I took credit for all the
good stuff, which I now know

is just crazy and ridiculous.

And I am now in a super healthy, intimate,
loving, fun, awesome relationship.

I have been for three and a half years.

And one of the things that attracted
me the most about him initially, was

that he had really good boundaries.

So what that means in the relationship.

Is if he does something that even
slightly bothers me, I tell him and

I tell him immediately, cause one
of the things you have to learn,

how to do when you set boundaries
is directly communicate to people.

So I used to beat around the Bush or imply
things or try to read people's mind or

expected them to read my mind, but then
deny that I expected them to read my mind.

And now I say, Um, you
know, please don't do that.


Don't put that there.

So everything gets nipped in the
bud am not building up resentment

and then exploding like I did
for, with the rest of them.

With the rest of my partners.

and it's, it's really interesting.

There's so much that happens
in my relationship now.

where I'm in it, I'm doing whatever
I'm doing with him and I'm observing

and going, oh my God, this would have
been completely different than the us.

You know, I, I realize now I was kind
of always building a case against my.

And I kind of had one foot out the door.

I was always assuming this
isn't going to work out.

So I just need to gather some evidence for
why that's going to be and all that stuff.

And it's just not happening now because
I'm able to be present because I actually

have a relationship that fits me because
I asked for what I want and need.

I say no, when I don't want to, I let him
know if he does things that offend me.

Here's another thing.

This is amazing.

I can ask for help.

I never asked people for help.

I was the helper, the fixer, the rescue,
and this is another thing in my step

group, super helpful to work with other
people, learning how to ask for help.

So one day we were meeting and one
of the women says, you know, I was

really upset the other day and I
was going to call one of you guys.

And I talked myself out of it
and it turned out, we were all

like, oh my God, I keep talking
myself out of calling you guys.

So we said, all Right.

we're not going to do that anymore.

We're going to make a pact and
we're going to stop talking

ourselves out of asking for help.

And then none of us did it.

None of us asked for help.

I mean, eventually we did.

That is how hard asking for
help is, well, here's the thing.

People with healthy
boundaries, let good things in.

They don't just keep bad things out.

So they let go to things like praise
and compliments and help and support.

So I actually ask my
sweetheart to do things for me.

And it was hard in the beginning.

I remember this one time, there's
this restaurant that I really,

I drove drive by all the time.

It's, it's this really fancy Italian
restaurant here in new Haven, and I've

always thought I really want to go there.

And so one day I'm driving
on the highway and there's a

billboard for this restaurant.

And I have this thought, I'm going
to ask Chuck to take me there.

And I suddenly.

Felt like crying.

I was like, what is this?

And when I processed it with
myself, I realized, I felt shame

for asking for what I wanted.

I didn't even ask it yet.

I thought about asking it, but
here's the thing that's different.

I actually asked.

I said, you know, and I
padded it a little bit.

I said, someday, I would love for
you to take me to trace Galena.

Doesn't have to be any time soon.

And he goes, Oh,

it's going to be soon.

And like four days later he took
me there, which was amazing.

So not only did he say yes,
he did it really quickly.

And it was such a lesson for me that maybe
it's hard in the beginning, but he wanted.

To help me.

He wants me to tell him what I want.

Another thing that we started doing.

So we've just had our, we've been
together three and a half years.

So we've just had our fourth
Christmas, a couple of Christmases ago.

I got this catalog and I wanted a whole
bunch of things in it, but there are

things I'm never going to buy from me.

So I just circled them all.

And then one day we were talking
and he was like, you know, I

don't really know what to get you.

And I said, well, here's a
whole bunch of things I circled.

And the cool thing is there's
a wide range of prices, so you

can spend whatever you want.

And there's a whole bunch of items.

Don't get them all for me.

And he.

Field day with that because he gets
to get me something that I want.

He doesn't have to figure it out and then
get in trouble for not reading my mind.

And I get surprised because I forgot
what I circled, you know, what I

circled so many different things.

And So, that's what we're
doing now I can ask for what I

want and it feels really good.

so so what about the opposite situation?

So, I mean, that sounds fantastic.

The, you know, I think, I almost
think it's comes from, from an early

age and I'm thinking, I mean, I
have three kids and I think about.

You know, almost the conditioning,
if you will, that goes into, oh,

just say it's good at certain times.

And I'm thinking, oh no, um, you know,
you're not supposed to really, but at

the same time, you know that, I mean, and
you're going to disagree with me, but I'm

going to say, I feel like you showed at
certain times, just, you know, smile and

nod say something is good and whatnot.

So, you know, now I'm rethinking
that a little, but if I, if I think.

It through, there have been lots
of times where I have tried to put

in a boundary or I've worked with
other people who have, who have

attempted to change a relationship
with the customer or whatever.

And it, and it blows up.

And obviously in a customer
situation, things can, um, change.

But if you are, you know, an employee
working for an employer and you don't

actually want to leave, or, you know,
you have a family member or, you

know, you want to make this change.

And the feedback is.

Isn't as positive as you know,
that, that wonderful experience.

I'm sure that in some
people in your life it will

Yeah, I've lost some people.


I mean, I've definitely
lost some people, um, and.


So having healthy boundaries
is about having choices.

So you get to decide how
you want to live your life.

So if you are working in a place
and you decide things aren't working

for you anymore, and you go to set
boundaries and it's just not working

and nobody's conforming, then do you
really want to stay working in there?

If these are new changes that you
really feel are authentic to who

you are, and that's what you need.

To feel like you're having a
fulfilling life and maybe you actually

don't want to stay working there.

Maybe you do want to leave, but if you
really don't, then you get to decide,

what am I going to do about this?

You know, if, if like, so my
brother is a really good example.

My brother is a very dysfunctional person.

He, uh, you know, he loves to,
he talks very, very loudly.

He really kind of.

He's very into politics.

I stopped listening to the
news like six years ago.

It's just not good for my mental health.

I don't want to talk about it.

Even though we agree politically.

And he works in a pharmacy chain
that he hates and he loves customers.

He loves his fellow employees, but he
hates the business and all that stuff.

I don't want to talk about that business.

I don't want to talk about politics
and I really don't want to hear you.

And I tried a number of times to say,
you know, can we change the subject?

Can you quiet down?

I don't want to talk about politics.

He's literally in capable of doing.

He just doesn't have it in him.

So the boundary is that I spend a
tiny little bit of time with him

and the window of time has gotten
smaller and smaller and smaller.

And the times in between.

Have gotten larger and larger.

And in fact, I actually, haven't
spoken to him since the pandemic.

I saw him the weekend before the pandemic
and I haven't spoken to him since then.

And it's okay with me because
of the amount of like a mental

and emotional work I have to do
to be, around him is enormous.


I, I was used to that for 50
something years that it was just,

that's just what was, and then I
bitched and complained about him.

When I started realizing, wait,
I have a role to play here.

I can do something about it.

And when I tried to set boundaries
with him and he wasn't capable, then I

had to realize, well, what can I do to
help myself and my mental, emotional.

I can close the window of time.

I spend with him, so spend no
longer than an hour with him.

And I can also spend it with him only
a couple of times a year instead of

four or five or six times a year.

You know what I mean?

So you get to decide if somebody is
really important and you really want

to keep them in your life, what can
you do to minimize them triggering it?

That's the other thing about boundaries?

You can't turn people.

Into, like, I can't turn him into a quiet
person who doesn't talk about politics.

That's not possible.

That's the, like the myth, when
people come to me for boundaries

coaching, they're like, I want
to change the other people.


That's not.

That's how a boundary is.

A four boundaries are for you.


So I can't turn them into something
that they're not, but I can minimize the

amount that they trigger me by putting
different boundaries up in my life.

Does that, does that answer your question?

It does.

And I think the, the statement of,
you know, thinking about what is

my role in this, or, you know, what
role do I play is, is really the

key piece that comes back to that.

What are your values being
present in the situation?

I mean, it ties all so closely in
together and you know, what is my

role, um, in that I think that the.

There seems to be, and maybe it's, as
you know, we've got the, you know, all

these different pieces going on in life.

There's, you know, you turn up
turning on the TV is a dangerous

thing, but it's also on social media.

A lot of people, you know,
social media is part of business.

And so, you know, you kind of
get inundated with all of this,

um, you know, extra negative, um,
content and information and whatnot.

And I think that, um, often.

You get into some kind of, um, social
situation and it's the easy, you know,

people used to talk about the weather
and now it's, you know, and I mean, I

was raised that, you know, you don't talk
about religion or politics at the table.

And, and that is, I mean, that is
clearly old fashioned these days.

And so, uh, you know, interesting
to put that boundary on it and,

and feel confident in that and
say, no, like, this is, I don't

like this and I, I want to change.


I mean, I, I have to say, you know, my
mental health is a priority now and it

never was before, so I'm a priority now.

That's what I'm saying is
I, I am a priority now.

And so.

People ask me.


What was it like What happened that.

you were able to go from shitty boundaries
or none to having healthy boundaries?

And I think the core for me is
that I have come to care more.

What I think about.

Than what other people do.

And so this doesn't mean
that I don't care at all.

What other people think about me?

Of course I do.

I mean, I was a people
pleaser for a reason.

Like I do care a lot about other people.

I want to be kind of good and helpful
to people, but not to my detriment.

So what I mean is it used
to be that I would lie.

So people pleasers are dishonest
and manipulative, and I was

like a gas when I learned that.

So what, what I mean by that?

You're saying Yes.

When you mean, no, that's a lie.

You are manipulating people, you were
doing it because you want them to like,

you know, I didn't know that in the
beginning, but you're doing it because

you don't want them to be mad at you.

You want them to like, you, you want them
to think, so that's called manipulation.


So being a people, pleaser is not nice.

It's dishonest and manipulate.

So I've got to stop that, right.

So I was willing to lie and to corrupt
my character for, to get you to like me,

but I didn't like me, so I didn't care.

So I was willing to throw my
personal integrity under the bus.

So you would like me.

I'm not willing to do that anymore.

I care about my own.

Integrity and honesty
is bottom line for me.

Like I'm not lying for anybody.

I'm not, it's not hard because
I have to live in this skin.

So I put what I think of me
and my personal integrity

above what you think of me.

So if it's, I might upset him.

But I'll feel like I'm a good and
decent person because I told the truth,

then that's what I'm going to do.

And I want to say one other thing
about that is people are afraid to hurt

people's feelings and I'm not advocating
that you should purposely hurt people's

feelings, but there's a difference between
hurting someone and harming someone.

And I love this metaphor of
when you use a needle to take

a splinter out of your finger.


Hurt you, but it doesn't harm you.

In fact, it heals you, right?

It might hurt you to drill your
tooth, but it doesn't harm you.

It heals you.

Well, it might hurt someone's
feelings to set a boundary with

them, but it doesn't harm them.

In fact, it might heal your
relationship with them because.

You're telling them the
truth about who you are.

It will heal you for certain.

I mean, some, some relationships will
not withstand you setting boundaries.

That's just the facts, but it's
going to heal you because you're

going to be your authentic self.

You're going to be living
in line with your integrity.

And for me, Living in
integrity means being whole.

So w I mentioned my, um, podcast
is fragmented to a whole life

lessons from 12 step recovery.

And I named it that for that very
reason, because I think, you know,

I had all these different facades up
these different fragmented pieces of me.

And because I am now a woman whose
integrity, those pieces have integrated.

Integrity into one coherent
whole, the pieces of me that

weren't authentic have gone away.

And so now I can be rocked by
things that happen to me, but I

cannot be shattered by them the way
that I used to because I am whole.

And that also means for me another way
to say I'm whole is I know who I am.

I didn't really know who I was
before because I was a people.


That's it.

It's incredible.

It really is.

It's the message is, is so powerful.

So what is one tip you have for the
audience that, you know, they can

implement today and they're going to,
it's going to create impact tomorrow.

yeah, I would say keep the
focus on yourself and I mean

that in four different ways.

When you are in a situation, ask
yourself, what do I really want here?

What do I want and need like,
think, feel like, what do I want?

I was, I never did that
to mind your own business.

I used to give unsolicited
advice all the time.

If people ask you for your
help or your advice, go ahead.

But if they don't know.

Three, what is my part in things?

This is something such a blessing
I learned from honestly, the most

important gift I learned in recovery.

What am I doing in this situation
that is making it bad or worse?

Or what could I do
differently in the future?

And then lastly, Keeping the focus
on myself also means taking good

care of myself, letting in the
good things I mentioned before I

neglected the hell out of myself.

And I have a very thorough
morning and evening routine

to take good care of myself.

I don't take meetings before
nine o'clock in the morning

because I need my self care.

Like I would like once in a
while, but I'm never going to do

go to a weekly meeting at eight.

Because I know I need a long runway
into my day to take care of myself

so I can do the 50 Julian things
that I do because I do a lot.


Taking care of yourself first
and, and giving yourself the

best chance to do your best.

your cup first so you can
fill other people's cup.


Such a good, such a good
vision and explanation.

So outside of the podcast, where
can people connect with you?

Where can they, you know, see
and hear and feel your message?


So I love to hang out on Instagram.

That's my favorite social media.

I'm at higher power coaching.

My website is higher power
and I actually have a bunch of free

stuff about boundaries on that site.

There's a menu that says my issue is and
go to the one that says setting boundaries

and there's links to I've like 16 podcasts
episodes specifically on boundaries.

There's an article, a free downloadable
and all that kind of stuff.

Um, and then my podcast is also linked on
there, but you can also go to fragmented.

It's a and that'll
get you to the podcast page.

And it has links to every podcast outlet.

So if you're like Spotify, Stitcher, or
whatever, you can just click on it and

it'll open up in your, if you're on your
phone, it'll open up in your, in your app.



Well, thank you so much, Barb, but
I think that this has been such an

Thank you.

Thank you.

Great, great questions.

You really, you got into a lot of nuance
that, you know, not everybody does.

And I've loved how you asked, like real
like burning Tiffany and questions.

I loved it.

It was great.


Thank you.

You're welcome.

Fight, Flight, or Boundary
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