Service Based Business Society Podcast

Hello, and welcome to the Service Based Business Society podcast. I'm your host, Tiffany Ann Bottcher. I left the corporate world to build my own businesses, and along the way, I've learned that scaling isn't all highlight reels. It's messy, it's hard, and it's totally worth it. As a mom of three, the author of the data driven method, and a serial entrepreneur, I know firsthand what it takes to build something bigger than yourself.

This show is where we get real about entrepreneurship. The good, the bad, the beautiful, and, yes, even the ugly. Each week, I'll pull back the curtain to share stories, lessons, and strategies that help ambitious entrepreneurs scale their success. So let's get started. Alright.

I'm gonna be honest with you. This is a big one. Today's guest helped a business owner turn their $29,000,000 company into a $230,000,000 sale in eighteen months flat. Right in the middle of a pandemic. Another client, 837% sales growth over six years.

He's built nearly a 170,000 followers on TikTok, not by trying, but by accidentally proving that strategic storytelling beats flashy tactics every single time. Bill Harper is the CEO and Chief Creative Officer at BrandBossHQ. He's a four time agency founder, and he is the guy who brands like Carfax, Denny's, and Precision Tune Auto Care call when they need to stand out. He's won over a 100 industry awards, but what do I love most about him? He'll tell you straight up if original thought were stock, he'd sell his house to invest in it.

Because in a world where AI is pumping out mediocre content at lightning speed, Bill has made a career out of helping businesses find their unfair competitive advantage and tell the story that makes them impossible to ignore. This conversation is about branding. Yes, But it's really about why most businesses are invisible and what to do about it. I'm super excited to have him here. Welcome to the show, Bill.

Thank you so much for having me. This is a pleasure.

It is such a pleasure. I've been so looking forward to this call. I first stumbled upon you on TikTok, got down the rabbit hole of everything that you're doing and was super excited to have you on the podcast. So I'd love to hear, you know, oftentimes we kind of start with how did you even get into this space? Because if I think back, you know, even ten years ago, the way that we do business now is not how business was done then.

And so love to see, you know, you, you see what people are doing and what people are, you know, creating out of, in, in some instances creating out of nothing really, and, and being, and creating these online presences and awareness and whatnot. So how did you get into this space? What, what led you to here?

I went on at the bequest of a friend of mine who told me you would be really good on TikTok and he kept bothering me about it. And I was like, no, I won't. No, I won't leave me alone. I don't want to do it. And for months I told him no.

And I now send him thank you letters and take him to lunch regularly because I had no idea that this was going to become anything at all. And so I basically went on to shut him up. Went on to prove to him it wasn't going to work. And I had absolutely no, no, expectation that anybody was going to be interested in marketing this way. None.

And it was as big a surprise to me as I think it was to anybody else that people were saying, Hey, what you're saying is relevant to my business. I just, I didn't think that it would be that way. So I think it was, it was a, it was a wonderful and delightful surprise that has really taken on a life of its own. And we're almost to 170,000 followers this month, which is really nice. And in a short period of time, I think we're just under two years.

So, it's proof that you can literally talk about anything that you're passionate about and have a group of people that's interested in hearing and learning from you about it. Think that's the big secret to TikTok is that its value is actually mini mentorship. And once you discover that the platform really grabs value.

Yeah, it's a, the whole world is, is very interesting. I, I often, I like to study and think of like how the, the how and the why behind how, you know, some, some things are super popular. Other things, you know, are, are great content, but don't ever really gain any traction and kind of how, what is the differences? And, and so I, I feel like I like the, the nerdy kind of the why behind some of it. And, and it's very interesting because there's some people, who talk about very, know, there's this lady who is, who I, I was folding laundry and doing the doom scroll at the same time and, and was like, she has this amazing following and people who just adore her.

And she gets on there and she's like in her pajamas, you know, she's like, morning guys, like, blah, blah, And it's like, you literally feel like you're sitting, having a coffee with her in her kitchen while she's going over her like grocery list prior to, you know, getting started on her meal prep. Like it's, it's crazy.

People love the, the ability to be involved and included, number one, which I think this trips. And I think the other piece of it is that there's a voyeuristic thing. Like everybody wants to read everybody else's text messages, like what's in there, right? And I think that this, if it's, if it's done properly, gives you that sense. I had somebody, call in for a meeting one time and they were like, I know you.

She said, the thing is, is that I have the advantage. I know you. You don't know anything about me. And I thought, you know, what an interesting thing to think about. There's a painter, Paul, I've forgotten his last name.

He does these breathtaking cityscapes in painting that are these massive format things. Honestly, like the zen I get from watching this guy paint these cityscapes over and over again. And I think that's another part of the of the TikTok mystique is you could get lost in somebody else's rabbit hole, which is kind of delightful, right? It's like, oh, I never I would never have thought about mixing, I don't know, chocolate chips and molasses that way or whatever. Like, you can completely get lost in somebody else's interests and discover something, even if you don't ever do anything with it.

It just feeds the brain and it kind of feeds the soul. It's really a phenomenally interesting phenomenon. Just how interesting it is to just see other bits of humanity doing the thing that they really like to do.

So prior to TikTok, how did you, you know, obviously you got into TikTok now things are going well, but what was, what was before the TikTok?

Well, we were a traditional advertising agency. Think like so many others, a small group that focused on helping growth minded businesses figure out what story to tell people. So there's certainly a connective tissue there between us telling our story and helping others to tell theirs. So, you know, our focus has always been that helping businesses stop doing advertising and start branding and start telling their unique story, because until they do, they're a commodity product and, you know, nobody cares. So that transition is where we spend the majority of our time.

You look at companies like, you know, I was talking to my son about it recently because there's this brand that he, he follows and he thought it was super cool that they were doing a lot of filming at these, he's, he loves lacrosse. And so he, it's this equipment brand and they have this crew that films a lot of the semi pro games and things. And so he and I, he's 10, he and I get talking about how, you know, how are they making any money? Do we, you know, he's like, mom, he's like, that's probably expensive. Like how does, you know, his mind, he's kind of like, how are we connecting this?

And I said, well, you know, if you, if you kind of look at Red Bull, if we, if we study that, if you go on their YouTube or Instagram, I said, you know, you don't, you don't ever see, you know, when he laughs, he's like, oh, Red Bull gives you wings. I was like, yep, there's marketing tactic number one. You know, the fact that every person who is on the planet, you know, my six year old kid will tell you that if he sees a can. And then I said, but you don't, I said, buddy, like you don't ever see them say like, Hey, it actually tastes not that great. It's kind of a weird color.

It's this, you know, it's like, it's, they have sold a, there's a whole experience. There's a whole, he's like, oh yeah, the sports and this. And then he started to get it. And he was, he was kind of like, oh, he's like, I said, otherwise it's just, you know, you go into the store and there's, you know, a million energy drinks.

You know, people seem so confused by what brand is, but in its simplest form, if I say James Bond movie, you have a predefined expectation in your head of what you're going to get. That's it. That's a well defined brand. If I say French fries and the picture of a McDonald's French fry, the red, you know, cup with the little golden M on the front is the first thing that you think about. And you're like, Oh, I can taste those little, you know, thin fries that they have.

And that's amazing. That's, that's a successful brand. When the expectation of a particular experience precedes the actual experience itself, You've succeeded. You've done brand. Okay.

So Red Bull will give me wings. Mom, I know what that means at 10 years old. If I ever want wings, I guess I've got to go drink that stuff. You've transcended the product or the service. And now that's it.

So GEICO is, you know, if I want to save time and money, if I want to get 15% or more in fifteen minutes or less, I know where to go. And if I want somebody that's going to be, you know, at my service all the time, I'm going to go to Progressive because their whole message is, you know, we only exist because you exist. And when, when businesses put that in place, all of a sudden there's something to follow. There's some relevance there. Oh, well, I want service over just money.

Okay. So, I'm a progressive person. Well, I don't want to deal with those people. I just want to know that I'm getting a really good deal and I've got stuff to do. Okay.

Now we're a GEICO person. Getting that understanding in your head is so simple if you hear it the right way, but I think is so unbelievably elusive if you don't. And it's where all the power is. It has nothing to do with the product or the service. It has everything in the world to do with establishing that predefined expectation.

If you can define an expectation that people can say without you needing to say it to them, you win. That's it. Like, it doesn't get any simpler than that.

It's so powerful because when you really start to think about, I mean, like I, my mind immediately starts going to my own business or that business and really deciding what does that look like? And I think as a business grows, so one of your videos, I think that you, you say that they spend, the big companies are spending about $7.07 percent of their

That's a round number, but even the well established companies are in excess of like four and five usually.

Which is, I mean, on some of those companies, that's a huge spend. So these companies that you're talking about like GEICO and Progressive, I mean, that's massive. And it's funny because I work on the other side often with business owners looking at budgeting and whatnot. And it's when advertising is one of the first areas business owners are like, oh, we could get leaner there. You know, it's like they look at it and they say, you know, it's a service based business.

You're going to say a lot of it is going be labor. You know, if you're paying someone to do, do a service and then some kind of component of it is going to be materials or parts or something of that. And then your next biggest expenses are either usually going to be vehicles if you run a fleet or kind of advertising. And so you look at, you know, on a, on a giant corporation versus, you know, a smaller business and you think, well, that's, that's a pretty big, you know, split. So how can businesses compete?

A smaller business, you know, great product versus, you know, great product service, some of these bigger organizations.

One thing to write down, only one, be interesting. That's it. And most businesses are terrified to be interesting. They won't be interesting. So what they do instead, they don't know how to be interesting.

So what they do instead is they describe themselves. This is my pen. This is the best pen ever. We have 54 colors and a clicker that works really great. This little metal thing here, well, it makes sure that it doesn't fall off your shirt.

And it's like, nobody cares about that because that's completely irrelevant. You've got to do something else. So there's a guy here in Raleigh who drives around a truck. And I actually called him one day because he's just, he's got two trucks, think in the area and more business than he can do. And it's just a sign, a plywood sign on the top of his truck that says, suck my huge letters across the top.

And then underneath it in smaller letters says gutters, suck my gutters. Okay. This guy has a line of business out the door. He could grow to whatever size he wants. And he drives around in this rickety truck with his home Depot slapped together, spray painted sign that he's put together.

No money. Nothing. Just a great hook, a good catch that people are like, what did he say? Oh, it's gutters. They remember it.

They react to it. They talk about it. They share it. They recommend him even when he's not, I'm sure the best gutter blowout guy that exists in the whole wide world, because he's memorable. He's interesting.

He's willing to be different. There's a pediatric dentist that's in Chapel Hill that says all the things that he's pro. He says, I'm pro Sasquatch. I'm pro aliens. I'm pro monster under the bed.

I'm pro all these things that little kids talk about. And then down at the bottom of it, it says, I'm anti cavity. So, it's like, I'm for all these little ridiculous fun things that you like and want to think about and explore and worry about and whatever. Like, I'm for all that. You know what I'm against?

I'm against cavities. Another one, line out the door. Everybody knows them. They have these blue t shirts with this text on it. Everybody in town has one and the kids love to wear it because it's interesting to them.

It's relevant to them and it's interesting to them and it's fun and it bridges that edutainment line that's so critically important, right? I don't mind what you tell me as long as it's not boring. Don't be dull. And as long as you're not dull, you've got something.

So it's interesting because I think that a lot of people, you know, I talk to a lot of business owners and, and some businesses are dull, but I would put gutter cleaning probably in the dull category. If I was, you know, it's like, I wouldn't set it doesn't, it doesn't like set the sky on fire. And so it's, it really is finding a way to take something that could be dull, you know, I mean, whether you're an electrician, I mean, the lights turn on or the lights don't turn on ultimately. And I mean, if you know the finer details of the electric, you know, I mean, is something, but to the general layman, you know, it's, it's not super exciting. So, you know, finding things that can be unique and interesting, you know, that, that is everything the secret sauce is.

There's literally nothing that can't be interesting. The question is, do you understand why? Do you understand why somebody would want it in the first place? If you understand that, you have all the fodder in the world that you need. Right.

And so let's take the gutter guy for a quick second. What's one of the top five things in the world you never want to think about ever? Gutter cleaning. Like I got gutters, I put them up, don't bother me about them. Like it's supposed to work, right?

It's one of those, it's one of those things in life that's supposed to work and it doesn't, right? Like it didn't say leaves were going to fall in it and gunk it up. It's supposed to move water off the roof and down and around. Like that's it. Just do your job.

Don't mess with me about it. And yet it does get gunked up and yet it does cause problems and they do hang off the thing and whatever. And so this guy being like, gutters suck. I'm going to make sure that your gutters don't suck. I'm going to make sure that you will remember to take care of your gutters so that they don't become a problem.

And I'm going to do it all by having three words on a plywood sign and drive around town with it. And it is the quintessential example of beauty and precision with simplicity, right? And that's what makes all good marketing work is that you've stripped away everything unnecessary. And all that's left is the idea. Volvo equals safe.

I can't tell you how many businesses insist on marketing themselves like restaurant instead of a steakhouse. If you want steak, you're going to go to a steak restaurant. You're not going to go to a buffet. Why? Because buffets serve a whole lot of crappy stuff.

Yeah. They cover all the bases, but they're not good at any of it. So, when businesses go out and they go, Oh, we do this, but we also do that, but we also do this, but we also do that. They don't realize that what they're doing is completely eroding the value of what they do. They would get so much more money, so much more traction, so much more success from coming out and saying, we're the plumbers that don't let your house smell.

Oh, because there's a contingency of the world that's like, God, please not the gutters or the plumbing, because if the plumbing goes bad, it's going to be icky. And so these people come in and they're like, you know what we're going to do? We're going to make sure that when you have a problem with the plumbing, that it's not going to smell in your house. Thank you. How are you going to do that?

It doesn't matter how we do it. Just know that we will. Boom. Their value goes through the roof. So it's, you know, it's just knowing how to tell that story and figuring out what thing you really can stand behind is, is where all the traction happens.

I just don't think it's taught well. So businesses don't think to look there for growth.

Yeah. So when, when I started, it's so in alignment with what happened even in my own business, because when I started, you know, I, I left the corporate space and I had all this education and I had all these years of corporate experience. And I, you know, being a finance nerd, tech automation, zero sales. And so, you know, I was like, okay, we got to figure out how to sell something here because it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter how great the product is.

If, if no one knows it exists and we don't sell it. And to start with, didn't, I wanted to, you know, didn't want to say we only serve steak because I was like, well, but if someone wants mac and cheese, I mean, I'll do it because like, who am I to say no to mac and cheese today? Like, and so, but we ended up with this kind of group of different things, right? It was like, well, we do a little of this and a little of that. And we called it a business management agency because we support entrepreneurs and we'll do whatever you need and whatever.

And we got some, you know, but then we started to grow and gain traction. And then through that process, thought, you know, it's really hard to, to market because we do it's too much. It's, it's a little bit of everything. And so people are like, does she do this or do they do that? Or like, who is this and what's going on?

And so I, I thought, you know, I, I really push hard against splitting the companies up into their own because I thought, oh, but you lose the opportunity for crossover. You know, what, what if, I mean, we could sell this person this, but we could also sell them this. You know, the interesting thing is we split it all up. Marketing became so much easier because now this company does this and this company does that. But what's interesting is the announcement that we split them up and the, this is how it's going to go, created more crossover sales because people had no idea that we actually did those other things because it was all muddled in

the, and

so we ended up with way more like, oh, I didn't, I didn't even know you did that. I'd love to, you know, and it's like, okay, well, we actually have a whole separate team that does that. You know, your, your, your bookkeeper isn't trying to do any of your SEO. Don't worry. It's not the same people, but you know, let's get connected and let's discuss this.

So interesting because it was the reason that I thought, oh, I don't know. And it ended up being, you know, one of the best parts of the whole decision.

I don't know a single business owner that has gone through the transition with any other response. I've never known one. I've never known a single business owner that came back to me after the fact and was like, oh my gosh, I wish we had never done that. I wish that we had, you know, It's just the way we buy when we're looking for aftermarket turbo kits for our 1980s Ford truck. Like, we want to know that the person that we're buying from just does aftermarket turbo kits for Ford trucks.

Like, that's the person we'll go out of our way to go find because we perceive them as having specialty knowledge. Even if the knowledge and here's how ridiculous it is. If I said, what's the safe car brand in the world? You would probably say Volvo, because Volvo has spent the last eighty years telling us that. But now really think about it.

Number one, Volvo doesn't actually own that. Mercedes does. Mercedes is actually the safest car on the road, always has been. But more importantly, all cars in The United States have to adhere to the same safety standards. And when you think about how ridiculous it is that we're saying this, by and large, you can expect the same measure of safety from any car that's established and sold in The United States because they have to adhere to the same safety standards.

So, you know, the difference you're getting is marginal in that respect. So, it's just funny. It's just the way that we process information. You know, is a Nike shoe really that much better than an Asics or an Adidas or a New Balance shoe? I would have to say probably not.

But Nike has achieved its, whatever it is now, 105,000,000,000 top line revenue status by making you believe that they are and that wearing those Jordans or whatever are significantly different enough that you want to align yourself with them. That perception is incredibly powerful. The emotions behind a buying decision are incredibly powerful. It doesn't start with logic. It starts emotionally and then is justified logically.

And again, most business owners don't get this. So, they do exactly what you're talking about. I'm going to cover off on all the bases. I'm not going to let anybody say no. I'm not going to let a dollar get away from me.

And they don't realize that they're actually slowing their growth. They're not accelerating it.

Yeah, it's tough because I think it all, you know, depends on the season a little bit, you know, it's like, I reflect back when you're first starting out, you don't have the luxury of being too picky if you are like, Hey, I want to get going. But, you know, I, and I, I talked about this on a recent episode, but then there's the time, just like, you know, your kids grow and go through school. It's like, well, but if, if your business stays stuck in that wrong season where you're like, now you're still doing, you know, five years later, you're still doing that exact same thing. And, and you haven't, you know, taken the time to say, Hey, I'm going to split it up, I'm going to change this, or drop this line entirely, or, or whatnot. You're really only just doing yourself a disservice in terms of growing.

Yeah, I would have to agree with that a 100%.

So in terms of a business really kind of honing in on what their messaging should be, you know, that you've I always kind of think about these kinds of things as like the, the Word document with the blinking cursor and that like getting it started. You know, how, how can someone get started on that journey of really figuring that out? Maybe they're like, Hey, my business is kind of bland and that's great that that gutter guy figured that out, but like, what's mine?

Yeah. So it, it, this is actually a really fun exercise and the way that I would start with it is twofold. Number one, what are you really good at that you like doing and you're profitable doing? That's number one. Like take a look back at where did, 75 or 80% of your revenue come from last year?

What's the thing that when you get that job, you're like, yeah, I'm going go do that and I'm going to make some money and it's going to be a good time and I know I can do it really well. That's on that side. And then attach that to a pain point that exists in the world. And what I mean by that is going back again to the plumber thing, right? Like, what do people hate about using a plumber?

Well, I don't like that stuff gets messy. I don't like that the people aren't on time. I don't like that they give me one number for a proposal and then the number that I actually have is completely different. I don't like, I don't like. And write them down on a piece of paper and then say, okay, if I take a look back at the work that I've done over the last couple of years where I was really profitable and I really enjoyed it and we could do it efficiently and like, if I could just do this all day long, it would be great.

How can I attach the thing that I'm doing to one of those pain points where I really support it? And there's a group in town here that says, if we're not on time, you don't pay a dime. That's their whole promise, their whole guarantee. And the thing is, is that they realize that one of the things that really irritates regular people is regular people live on a schedule of work. I've got to drop my kids off.

I've got to get everything done. I've to be there nine to five or whatever. And they don't have the flexibility of just saying, well, my plumber said that they would be here sometime between eight and two. So I guess I have to take the whole day off to be around for my plumber. Now working remotely has changed that a little bit, but the feeling still exists.

I don't just want to be sitting around. I got stuff I got to do. So this group realized that they could go after that one pain point and really own it all the way down to their guarantee. And so the whole structure was if we're late at all, we'll do the job for free. And they have people lining up because it was like, Hey, I hate it when people are late.

Like my dad taught me if you're, you know, on time is late, ten minutes before is on time. Like I want somebody else to honor that same thing for me. And for all the people that represent that value system, all of them go to this particular group because they say, I know that I can count on them to do that. And you can literally do that with any aspect of a business. You just have to choose it, be consistent with it, and then ladder everything else that you do up to that promise.

You don't go wide. You just go very, very focused and that's it. And that's where you're going to gain the most traction because that's where people will see your value at its very highest point.

Yeah. It's, it's really, really, you know, understanding when you're saying, Hey, what is the work that you really are excited to get? And you know, how does that solve someone else? It's really coming together that where it's like what you are passionate or what you're good at or, and coming together with that piece. Because if it, if there's that misalignment, it just, it just doesn't feel great.

Whole, the whole way doesn't feel great.

And it doesn't have to be a pain point that's tied directly to you either. You know, if you take a look at, Kettle One, Vodka, Kettle One Vodka recognizes that men want to be seen at their best as gentlemen and they wrestle with insecurity around that. So, their whole thing is, gentlemen, this is vodka. Now, think about that for a second. Does that have anything to do with the vodka?

No. What it has to do with is saying, we know about men that they are this way. And so as a brand that represents coming together as people and celebrating good times or bad times or whatever, This is the brand for gentlemen. Now, some of your listeners are going to be like, well, how did they get to decide? That's the beauty of brand.

You get to decide. Look, Eddie Murphy didn't go out and AB test whether he should be, you know, a dishwasher or a comedian. He went out and said, I'm going to be a comedian. The question now is, is how do I tell the joke the best way? That's where AB testing comes in.

So if, if you've, you know, decided we want to be this thing to people, fantastic. Then lean into it and don't stray from it because it's going to take a while for people to hear the story, to remember the story, to recall the story and to do something about it. So, you know, if you want to go out and tackle, you know, Disney tackles recapturing the magic of childhood because they recognized about people look, becoming an adult is, it's kind of a drag, right? Like when you're a kid, you ride your bike, you play with your friends, you have a good time. And then as you become an adult, like you got, I don't know, a job I got to deal with.

I got a boss I got to deal with. I got money issues. I got to deal with like all this other crap. Now life isn't as much fun as it used to be when I was a kid. Well, they created this behind a wall environment where you walk into it and you are a kid again.

Everywhere you look are princesses and spaceships and dragons and all kinds of cool stuff. And it's like for a little while, you get to just immerse yourself in what it was to feel like a kid again. And that's exactly what these brands do. It's very much about choice and intent. This is the thing that we love.

This is what we're passionate about. This is what we want to do. And this is how we can make sure that we bring that to life over and over and over again. I honestly think that for most businesses, the hardest part is getting out of the swirl. Like if you ever put a stick in water and it looks like the water's over here, we've all got this sort of distortion field around our own business where we're like, I could do it this way or this way or this way.

A real strong branding or advertising partner is the one that can sit down with you and say, this is what I see. Like, I reflect back to you, this is what I see as being really strong. And some people can do that internally on their own and some can't. And that's where an agency really is most valuable in stepping in and saying, let me give that answer to you.

Even if someone is good at, at doing that, a lot of times it's, you know, the forest to the trees expression where when you're really in it, it's hard to kind of take that 30,000 foot view. I think that the ability to do that and object ively look at your own business and even kind of call yourself out a little bit and be like, Hey, what are we really doing with this? Is it that, I mean, that is a skill all in its own. Right? You know, I look at some of the things that happen and creating, you know, these stories and being unique.

And I think, you know, when you, when you, when you're unique or do different, it almost opens you up a little bit to amazing, but it also opens you up to not amazing, especially in the online space. And you see, you've seen that happen to, you know, certain brands. If we think that, you know, the cake gate and this and that, these biz, you know, these, these ultimately these businesses that. You know, it's, it's not gone their way. And, and I think to a business owner, obviously there's this kind of risk mitigation and people's like, oh, don't, don't, don't put anything controversial.

Don't say any, you know, just, just the status quo because we don't wanna, we don't want to ruffle any feathers, but, but you know, what we're saying is, Hey, actually being different is, is where that secret sauce is, where the magic happens. So how do you, how do you kind of align those and make sure, how do you, what would you say to a business owner that is concerned about, you know, being online and being out there and being a little unique and the perceptions and possible?

It's a great question. And I would answer with a couple of things. Number one, and Herb Keller from Southwest Airlines is one of the most famous examples of this. You could give away chocolate chip cookies and puppies, and someone's going to be upset. So number one is you've got to realize that you will never satisfy all of the people.

There is no safe play. There is simply more invisible play. The notion of safety is ridiculous. You are either willing to be visible or you aren't in terms of marketing. So, Herb Keller, you know, when Southwest Airlines was just getting started, received famously received a letter from a woman who basically went on a tear about, you know, you're not serving meals.

You know, you're doing this crazy seating thing. Like, I can't even choose my own seat. Like, this is terrible. This is awful. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And Herb famously wrote on a piece of paper, We'll miss you, Herb Keller, and sent it back. No explanation. No. Please don't leave. No.

We're going to give you 54 free drink coupons. No, no, no. He said, you're simply not our audience. You go back to Delta, American, whatever, like go fly the brands that you're comfortable flying and you can get all those things and pay through the nose to get them. If you want to fly on my airline, you're going to get discount regional, these things so that you can fly more frequently.

So my audience has a problem being able to go see aunt Sophie twice a year because they can't afford the flight. I just made it possible for them to go. It's just, they're going have to bring their own sandwich. That's it. Like, there it is.

And so knowing your audience and being willing to be true to it is really the other piece. If you think back to the Bud Light fiasco and all the drama that that caused, or more recently the Cracker Barrel logo redesign, In both cases, the brand forgot their base. And I think Bud Light was one of the best. Bud Light is Joe and Jane Americana. They are back yard barbecuers, worked a hard day, blue collar, the world is built on our shoulders kind of people.

To suddenly have a transgender person in a bubble bathtub trying to say, you know, we're here for, like it just totally flipped on the base. It was like, Hey, we're the ones who bought your private jets. And suddenly now you're bringing folks that we don't align with into the mix. Now I made one post about that. It blew up and people were yelling at me from one end of the world to the other.

It was also one of the fastest following group gatherers I ever did. I got more subscribers during people hating on me for making that than I did for other posts where people were like, yeah, Bill, you're totally correct on that. And that's another reminder. The Howard Stern effect is very true. The biggest thing they found when they did research on Howard Stern was that the people who hated him listened because they couldn't wait to hear what he was going to say next, even though they disagreed with it, which by the way, was the exact same finding that they got for the people who followed him because they love him.

The more disturbance in the force you cause, the more people stop and pay attention, which is why I say it isn't about safe. It's about invisible. Less vibration you put out into the world and give people a reason to pay attention, the less you're going to grow. Visibility is profitability. And that's why PT Barnum said there's no such thing as bad advertising because what he meant was even if it's a disaster, people are now going, well, what else is going to happen?

Their looky lewness is infectious and it's magnetic and it's strong. Now I'm not suggesting that you go out and you blow something on purpose, although I have seen brands use that to their advantage. If you remember the Coors Light misspelling, led to buying the case of the Mondays, the morning after Super Bowl, that entire thing was fabricated. There was no misspelling. The misspelling was a nice, safe misspelling that they knew darn well was going to get a whole bunch of people to pay attention to them and talk and chatter, chatter, chatter, all leading up to the week before Super Bowl Sunday.

Then on Monday after Super Bowl, we come out with a case of the Mondays. What a brilliant idea, blah, blah, blah. All of that was staged. None of that was an oops. That was all staged.

And so it just goes to show how human nature works with people. You don't have to be afraid of standing out. You have to be afraid of not standing out. It's just we're wired to think differently.

It's powerful such concept of that because it does feel safe to stay, you know, but you're saying that it's, that's not really, it's almost a false sense of safety really, in saying, you know, Hey, but it's the, the opportunity for success, you know, it's, it's the, the willingness to step up and do it. I had a business owner a couple of years ago now. She came to me, said, I have this idea. And it was like very retail kind of based. And so I, you know, she was going to do it in her town, but she also wanted to be online and sell, across North America.

And I said, are you willing to be online? And she said, well, what do you mean? And I said, are you willing to be the face of your business online? I said, I think this idea could work if you are willing. I said, if you're not, I don't, I don't know how it will go because it was, it was one of those products that most places had, you know, those kinds of stores already in their area.

There was a million online. She had a very different take on it. And I thought if she could actually present that take to the world that she could make a go of it. But if she wasn't and she's, oh yeah, yeah, of course I am. And then, you know, she did her first couple and she's like, oh, I don't know if I really like this.

And she like really wanted to like pull back and get nervous. And, you know, at the end of the day, her, she, she didn't really ever, you know, do the follow through and her business is kind of doing a little bit, but it definitely is a bit of a missed opportunity. I think there is this willingness it's you saying, Hey, I'm going to get on Tik TOK and, you know, pre, you know, see what it's all about and prove, prove your buddy wrong there or not. But you know, the willingness to actually do it.

I think that's another thing. The other thing that people don't want to talk about is not everybody can do this. And what I mean by that, that always sounds very like, you know, self whatever, but it isn't. What I mean by that is not everybody can tell a story. Not everybody has presence.

Not everybody is. And I don't have it the same way Gary Vaynerchuk has it or Tony Robbins has it. So, you work with the hand you're dealt, right? And some people can get on and make something interesting and some people can't. And I think that's another challenge is, you know, some people get on to your point, they don't have patience or they don't have comfort or they don't have consistency or they don't know whatever.

But other people, you know, they'll get on and they just, there's no, there's no ability to connect. There's no connective tissue in the way that they talk or the way that they present or the insights that they share. And some people just don't do it well. They just don't do it well. And in which case you shouldn't avoid it.

What you should do instead is either lean into doing it badly, which I have seen some people do where they'll get on and they'll be like totally monotone. And then they become more monotone, which actually works because then it becomes kind of a shtick or you hire somebody, find somebody else on your team that just loves it, that just is passionate about connecting and networking and the rest of it. Get those people in front of the camera because they won't, they won't seize up at talking to a piece of plastic. For them, it's here's a window to the world and who knows where it'll go. And that to them is exciting, not fear creating.

Absolutely. So if someone wants to, you know, really take that next step, if they're sitting here thinking, my, you know, this is the part of my, my business that I'm missing. This is the part I've ignored. And I really am starting to see the value. What is that next step that they should take?

I think the biggest piece would be, you know, if you're looking for someone to help you, there's tons and tons of information online. I mean, you could certainly follow us. We give away a boatload of information at BrandBossHQ on TikTok and YouTube and Instagram and LinkedIn. But there are online courses that you can take. We sell a course, a lot of people sell a course.

Brand Master is another really good one, or Story Brand is another one that people tend to like. So, are online courses that you can become a part of. There are groups that you can join. Facebook has a number of marketing groups. Just don't be afraid of it.

I think the big thing is get educated on it so it's no longer the scary thing. You know, there's a million books out there that you could read on it. Tons and tons of information, lots of influencers that like to talk about it. I think once you open the door to willingness to learn, you'll be amazed at how quickly you can find really valuable information for nothing anywhere you look. I mean, if you want help walking through the process, then sure, find an agency partner that understands how to develop story and has a good track record doing it.

But there is no shortage. You know, this is not this is not hidden. This is not, you know, 33 degrees of Mason, whatever. This is open and available information to you anywhere. You just have to look for it.

I find that in marketing education space, there's really two camps. And I think if you end up in the wrong camp, end up with a kind of deficiency. And one is in the mechanics of marketing, the softwares, the automations, the, you know, AI agent, this, the, all of these kinds of things important, but, but not, if you're not really clear on the messaging and the brand and what you're representing, all you're doing is automating a bad message. All you're doing is pushing out a bad message faster into the world, which ultimately you're spending more money or more time. And, and I think that that, that key piece, which isn't as easy to find right now, I feel like right now, especially where there's this, such a focus on tech, and, and whatnot is, is that all of that is so powerful, but it still has to be the right message that we're pushing out.

Let me tell you why I'm excited about that. I'm really excited about people using AI incorrectly because it's going to make our jobs so much easier. When you think about the way people are leaning on AI to replace original thought and the dependency that's coming so quickly on, well, I just used AI and AI did this. What they don't realize is that AI is an LLM. It's a large language model.

And that means it's trying its best to come up with the common denominator. That's the very last thing you want if you want to be unique is to come up with the thing that they say is what worked the most often. Because what that means is, is you're now following everybody else. And when you consider that there are 33,000,000 small businesses in The United States that are all diving on the exact same freshly open tollbooth lane, all that's going to do is create a huge logjam behind you of people that are coming up with the exact same solution over and over and over again. And now not only are they coming up with it, they're coming up with it faster and then they're able to support it faster over and over and over again.

That's like hitting Xerox copies. Like, it's just like hitting the copier button and just saying again, again, again, again, again, you're literally now becoming a manufacturing plant for mediocrity and commodity. You have now just taught everybody who could potentially buy from you to see you as a parody product. If you're growth minded, that is literally the last place in the world you can afford to be. Period.

Full stop. So I watched that trend. Adobe did a big summit presentation last year where they were talking about, look at all the automation sequencing that we're going to be able to do with AI to make your life simpler. And the example they used was Coca Cola and they said database one is all of the images that have already been pre approved. And database two is all of the supportive copy that's already been approved.

And database three is a prompt that has been approved by the company that, we're going to use to generate headlines. And they were like, watch this. And they hit a button and everybody in the room clapped and applauded as a thousand pieces of crap content came squirting out the back end of this thing. And they were like, look, it didn't take any time to do. The lighting didn't match.

The headlines didn't make sense. It was produced, but it was garbage because garbage in garbage out. And everybody was standing like, I'm watching these people and I'm, I'm like, I'm aghast. They are thrilled. They are on their feet cheering and clapping and we're never gonna make a banner ad again.

And I was like, then do away with the banners. Don't automate bad garbage. You just, you've just sped up crap into the world. Like if you thought they were ignoring you before, you just, you have no idea how much they're about to be ignoring you now, because the companies that know how to do this, guess what? They just got the same expanded toolbox that you did.

Only they know how to use it. You think for one minute that they're not going to trounce your, I was able to make an alien floating in space, eating French fries in thirty seconds concept. They're going to bury you in, in all manner of drag. So it's like, I said about six months ago in a, in a TikTok video, I said, if original thought was a stock, I'd leverage my kids' education to invest in it right now. Like I would literally sell my house to invest in original thought because it's going to become so valuable when everybody else is just pumping out crap.

It's going to be the thing. And the value of the marketing firm that understands strategy and creative development right now is through the roof, through the roof, because the production tools are no longer the limitations that they once were. You can literally create Hollywood level production, Ridley Scott type stuff in your jammies at home at night, if you want to, while you're watching, you know, your favorite movie. That production has leveled the playing field for everybody. If you don't have original thought, if you don't have something unique to say, if you don't have your strategy buttoned up, forget it.

You're, you're expect to see a drop off, not a rise.

Absolutely. I couldn't agree more. Well, you so much for being here. What a powerful discussion that, that really combines so many key concepts of branding and original thought and, you know, when to be, you know, leaning into tech and when to really not be. You know, just because it's available and you can, doesn't mean you should.

And

think that's a great lesson from my life. Isn't it? Because

you It really is.

Doesn't mean you should.

Well, yeah, it's well, because like you said, you can come up with, I mean, the, the stuff you can do, and it's fun, right? Like you can, you can play around with it, but knowing, you know, when, when you should be using it to have fun and when you should be using it to generate revenue is, is two separate things.

Absolutely. Tiffany Ann, thanks so much for the invitation. It's been a real pleasure.

That's all the time we have for today, but the conversation doesn't stop here. Be sure to subscribe to the Service Based Business Society podcast on all of your favorite apps. And if you're hanging out over on YouTube, search for Tiffany and Botcher. Your likes, comments, and shares don't just help the show, they help more entrepreneurs find the real stories strategies that they need to scale. Until next time, keep pushing, keep building, and I'll catch you in the next episode.